# Russian school attack-why do the reporters refuse to call it terrorism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001 "2004-09-03T19:24:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/81 "2004-09-05T06:01:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Bushido HAS its roots in the Shinto religion (i.e. its NOT non-religious), nor was this some kind of secular ‘cultural tradition of following orders’…again, it had its roots in Shinto and therefore was religious at its roots. Only in the sense the chivalry had its “roots” in Christianity, that is, as a general artifact of the overall culture. Bushido was no more driven by Shinto belief than knighthood was driven by Christianity. As artifacts of the larger cultures, they each borrowed heavily from the language of dedication and service, but neither could legitimately be seen as a direct outgrowth of the religious beliefs. In fact, we can point to the specific secular arenas where chivalry was manufactured, using Christian imagery only loosely tied to Christian belief. Bushido grew out of the same need to set boundaries on the warriors of a feudal society and also borrowed from the prevailing culture, using religious imagery (borrowed from multiple religions in this case, including Shinto and the competing Buddhism, among others) without being driven by those religious beliefs. Beyond that, the version of Bushido that arose in the early 20th century and was extended to the whole military rather than the select warrior class was very much contrary, in several ways, to the religious beliefs that were loosely tied to its earlier manifestation. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/82 "2004-09-05T06:40:14Z")
Messin with Tom about religion is a real foolish thing to do. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/83 "2004-09-05T11:49:40Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Who? I can’t find antyhing in the English-language media, except a report on Radio Free Europe that Anna Politkovskaya flew to Moscow to be treated for acute food poisoning. .) Reading yesterday’s paper that I just bought, it appears that it was indeed her, and that I apparently misunderstood. She didn’t die, though whether it’s a food poisonning or a plain poisonning was seemingly unclear yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/84 "2004-09-05T12:36:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There’s nothing vacuous about the word terrorist in this context. Terror was used against a civilian populace for political goals. “Hostage taker” is secondary to the event. Which I think is the point of the post. I’m sure many children died in the Blitz, the firebombing of German cities towards the end of WWII, Hiroshima and for that matter in Bagdad recently. Making the population in those places absolutely shitscared, shocked and awed so that they’d not have the stomach to fight on was explicitly part of the purpose in every case. Should one use the “t” word about those events? Why not? Why is it that causing “shock and awe” is OK but causing “terror” isn’t, when it’s pretty damn hard to pick a difference from a purely terminological point of view? The only way to explain the difference is politics, I expect. One supports some campaigns, one doesn’t support others. So one uses a word that has perjorative connotations about one campaign, not about others. The news services are quite right to call people by what they do in particular. These Chechens took hostages, so they are “hostage takers”. What the heck’s wrong with that? If only the news services did it more, and stopped throwing the “t” word around like confetti, we might have the head space to think a bit more clearly about what is going on. > [@uglybeech](#): > > Didn’t Gandhi show us that there were moral ways of resisting oppression As long as you have an oppressor who is comparatively moral, or at least wants to appear comparatively moral and is unable to prevent knowledge of its immorality from reaching those in whose eyes it want to appear moral. In short: if Ghandi had been using civil disobedience to resist the Russians, and if the Russians were able to prevent media access to the conflict (see posts about the hidden war above) he would simply have been shot and so would all his followers. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/85 "2004-09-05T13:41:20Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Reading yesterday’s paper that I just bought, it appears that it was indeed her, and that I apparently misunderstood. She didn’t die, though whether it’s a food poisonning or a plain poisonning was seemingly unclear yesterday. Which paper? Is it one available online? I’ll look again in the English- and Russian-language sources. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/86 "2004-09-05T13:48:50Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The news services are quite right to call people by what they do in particular. These Chechens took hostages, so they are “hostage takers”. What the heck’s wrong with that? Ordinarilly, nothing, but these terrorists also shot children, and at least one of them blew herself up and killed a bunch of children, so mere ‘hostage taker’ doesn’t seem like a fitting description. It would be like refering to Charles Manson as a ‘vandal’, since he wrote on the walls of the houses they broke into and killed people in. Sure, it’s technically correct, but… ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/87 "2004-09-05T13:57:34Z")
Ah…found some news on Anna Politkovskaya, and also Andrei Babitskii, another journalist (for Radio Liberty) who has been harrassed repeatedly by Russian authorities for his coverage of Chechnya: [http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/03/politkovskaya.shtml](http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/03/politkovskaya.shtml) [http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/02/babitsky.shtml](http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/09/02/babitsky.shtml) Efficient way to prevent balanced news coverage of the situation, no? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/88 "2004-09-05T14:39:05Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Which paper? Is it one available online? I’ll look again in the English- and Russian-language sources. [Here’s](http://www.lemonde.fr/web/recherche_articleweb/1,13-0,36-377856,0.html) the article. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/89 "2004-09-05T14:42:58Z")
Well…apparently, my answer came too late, since you had already found press releases about both journalists. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/90 "2004-09-05T14:49:01Z")
Just to mention there’s an interesting detail in the “Le Monde” article about the hooliganism charges brought against Babitsky : > [@](#): > > Comme il n’y a pas d’explosifs, il est relâché. \*\* Mais les choses se gâtent à sa sortie du poste de police lorsqu’il est vivement pris à partie par deux jeunes habillés en civil. \*\* > > Cette altercation le ramène au poste de police où il est bientôt accusé de hooliganisme So, the fight would have been initiated by two unknown individuals right after he was first released. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/91 "2004-09-05T17:58:05Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Ordinarilly, nothing, but these terrorists also shot children, and at least one of them blew herself up and killed a bunch of children, so mere ‘hostage taker’ doesn’t seem like a fitting description. Sure, _once they’ve performed a suicide bombing_ then they’re a suicide bomber. Until then, you can’t call them that with certainty. However, I remember during the seige, reporters refering to it as an '_apparent_ suicide mission\*. Seems accurate enough to me. The purpose of news media is **not** to instill a sense of outrage or shock in the public. The purpose is to report events in a clear-headed manner. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/92 "2004-09-05T18:47:54Z")
Terrorists? Animals? Pigs? Nah. Far too kind and an insult to the bacon-brothers. These are people who shoot children in the backs. [see Pit: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5238612&postcount=108](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5238612&postcount=108)] From [http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1045832004](http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1045832004) [amongst others] More than 540 people remained in hospital, at least 330 of them children. Several of the most badly injured survivors were transferred to Moscow for medical treatment, among them \*\*an 18-month-old said to have been the subject of a barbaric knife attack by militants. \*\* Meanwhile, it remained unclear who had organised and executed the attack although at least 10 Arabs were among the 35 hostage-takers confirmed dead. The Russian news agency ITAR-Tass quoted a high-ranking intelligence official in southern Russia as saying that the school seizure and other major terrorist attacks in Russia had been financed by Abu Omar As-Seyf, an Arab who allegedly represents al-Qaeda in the rebel republic of Chechnya. The official claimed that the operation was masterminded by rebel leader Shamil Basayev and led by field commander Magomed Yevloyev, who was believed to be the leader of the strict Wahhabi sect of Muslims in Ingushetia, which borders Chechnya. [bolding mine] ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/93 "2004-09-05T19:09:14Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > The purpose of news media is **not** to instill a sense of outrage or shock in the public. The purpose is to report events in a clear-headed manner. if you want to be clear-headed, use simple, straight talk. The terrorists killed 7 people on the first day.That makes them murderers, not just hostage takers. And threatening to murder hundreds of innocent children is pure terrorism, by any rational definition. Failure to use the word terrorist is not “clear-headed” journalism. It’s whitewash journalism. Would you agree to a journalist calling the Al Quaida training camps in Afghanistan ‘sports facilities’, where young men practiced running and shooting? After all, there was no proof that graduates of those camps used their new skills for killing. Maybe they just wanted to improve their skills for the Olympics, running marathons and shooting paper targets. We call them terrorist training camps, because that’s the obvious , clear-headed way to define them. And proudly murdering innocent children is one obvious, clear-headed definition of terrorism. Remember the old motto:Dont keep such an open mind that your brain falls out. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/94 "2004-09-05T19:39:04Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > if you want to be clear-headed, use simple, straight talk. The terrorists killed 7 people on the first day.That makes them murderers, not just hostage takers. And threatening to murder hundreds of innocent children is pure terrorism, by any rational definition. Failure to use the word terrorist is not “clear-headed” journalism. It’s whitewash journalism. For Christ’s sake, _how many times_ does it need to be pointed out that **‘terrorism’ has become a politicised term**. Journalists should refrain from using politicised terms in neutral reportying, should they not? As to calling them ‘murderers’ because of the murders on the first day, that would have completely ignored the whole reason why it was an _ongoing situation_, that they had taken hostages. _‘Hostage-takers’ was the most accurate description during the seige._ > [@](#): > > We call them terrorist training camps, because that’s the obvious , clear-headed way to define them. …and if a more accurate way to describe them came to light (such as one which was specifically training pilots), we would use a more accurate description. > [@](#): > > Remember the old motto:Dont keep such an open mind that your brain falls out. And that other one: One man’s terrorist is a… ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/95 "2004-09-05T20:50:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Just to mention there’s an interesting detail in the “Le Monde” article about the hooliganism charges brought against Babitsky Note: for those not familiar, Russian “hooliganism” is a catchall charge roughly analogous to American “disorderly conduct.” It’s frequently an excuse for the police to arrest someone and hold him if they can’t dig up any other reason to do so. After all, it’s your word against that of the police. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/96 "2004-09-05T22:58:34Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > if you want to be clear-headed, use simple, straight talk. Simple straight talk is: a bunch of people took hostages, killed children, etc. Simple description. What you really mean is: when you want your audience not to be bothered by straight fact but instead want to spoon feed your audience moral conclusions, use politically loaded terms. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/97 "2004-09-06T07:21:41Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Failure to use the word terrorist is not “clear-headed” journalism. It’s whitewash journalism. Bull. Are you saying that you were denied information because they chose to use a term other than terrorist? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/98 "2004-09-06T07:24:29Z")
Well, Reporters certainly call them terrorists now. [copy from pit] From [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040906.wxrussia06/BNStory/International/](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040906.wxrussia06/BNStory/International/) : Channel One television showed footage of one alleged attacker in the hands of security services. The man, dressed in a dirty black shirt, said: “I swear by Allah I did not shoot. I swear by Allah I want to live.” That is, ofcourse, after he and his lil’ friends shot a 12 year old girl in the back for 24 times. I guess mutilating babies wasn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/99 "2004-09-06T07:46:57Z")
> [@gum](#): > > The official claimed that the operation was masterminded by rebel leader Shamil Basayev and led by field commander Magomed Yevloyev, who was believed to be the leader of the strict Wahhabi sect of Muslims in Ingushetia, which borders Chechnya. That’s more of a question to \*\* Eva Luna \*\* or whoever else is familiar with the situation in Chechnya : Though a hostage taking organized by Basayev wouldn’t come as a surprise, I’d be surprised that wahabbis would take orders from him. Am I mistaken? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2004, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001/100 "2004-09-06T10:01:47Z")
I thought the OP was: “Why do reporters refuse to call it terrorism”? They do now. From [http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-09/06/content\_371904.htm](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-09/06/content_371904.htm) : An unidentified Russian intelligence official was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying the school siege was financed by Abu Omar As-Seyf, an Arab who allegedly represents al-Qaida in Chechnya, and masterminded by Chechen rebel leader Shamil Basayev. ITAR-Tass news agency also reported that one of the Beslan attackers was black and nine others were Arabs, indicating that it involved people from several countries. It is clear that without the world’s solidarity and unity, terrorism will not be beaten. Meanwhile, we are left counting lives lost in the name of causes that can never justify such barbarism. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-school-attack-why-do-the-reporters-refuse-to-call-it-terrorism/263001.md?page=6)