# Russia's Annexation of Crimea - Why do we care? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935 "2014-03-17T18:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/21 "2014-03-17T22:49:12Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > How did the invasion of Iraq discourage Russia? I don’t want the US to become isolationist either, but I certainly don’t want it to revert to 19th century gunboat diplomacy either. I honestly think that such diplomacy is the only thing that Russia understands. Look, I opposed the Iraq war fervently at the time and raged against the US and the decision of my country’s government to join them. It was a stupid and illegal and pointless war. The fact that it happened was incredibly short-sighted as it’s undermined the moral standing of the US in situations such as this. But two wrongs doesn’t make a right; we should work to stop these occasions all the time, not simply shrug and say ‘well the other guys have done it now, so fair’s fair.’ These are people’s actual lives at stake here, not just grandstanding by two superpowers. And without a stand made against Russia, their government is of the kind that only understands an equal and opposite force as one it can respect. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/22 "2014-03-17T22:49:34Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > I was discussing the build up to WW2, not the events in WW2. > > I agree that Hitler was a crazy nasty sort. However in the early days he made some logical calculations on the mind set of those in power of other countries and rightly concluded they were not serious to oppose him. > > We in the west constantly make the mistake of assuming that others in the world think as we do. That is not the way the world works. But maybe you are the one assuming wrongly. Perhaps Hitler took what he did because his calculation was at that point it wasn’t worth a war for anyone. If I let you take a pawn in a chess game have I emboldened you to go for a reckless checkmate? Maybe the lesson for non-Hitlers is that we should be louder and more assertive but surely the lesson to a would-be Hitler is that it will be a real war. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/23 "2014-03-17T23:00:01Z")
I think Putin is up for war, and war is the only thing left to stop him. He’s not done annexing Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/24 "2014-03-17T23:29:59Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Hitler was so bold that he later invaded Russia. What did Russia do to embolden him, may I ask? Maybe he just did crazy shit cuz he was crazy, not because the world was too soft on him. Everyone remembers Hitler lost and committed suicide in hiding, right? So, is Putin crazy? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/25 "2014-03-17T23:33:38Z")
I think he’s just naturally bold. His rise through the KGB and his blatant hold on power currently demonstrates a ruthlessness that can’t be ignored. But I doubt he’s crazy. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/26 "2014-03-17T23:41:52Z")
Crazy like a fox. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/27 "2014-03-17T23:48:39Z")
Offer Putin a compromise: He can keep Crimea and the West won’t object, and the rest of Ukraine joins NATO and he won’t object. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/28 "2014-03-18T00:33:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Offer Putin a compromise: He can keep Crimea and the West won’t object, and the rest of Ukraine joins NATO and he won’t object. No I don’t see that at all. Live with it? Ok. Not object? No. This really could be a new Cold War. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/29 "2014-03-18T00:41:20Z")
PastTense: > [@](#): > > I don’t see this. Previously Ukrainian politics were roughly split between pro-Russian and pro-European. With the invasion/removal of Crimea I see Ukrainian politics going overwhelmingly pro-European. Only if they’re not afraid of getting invaded and annexed further. I doubt anyone in Ukraine believes that Putin invaded Crimes because Crimea has any special meaning to him.They know he invaded because street protests ousted the pro-Russian president, and next time, it may be their region he invades and annexes. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/30 "2014-03-18T01:03:11Z")
Putin stated years ago that if Ukraine attempted to join NATO it would be the ‘last straw’. There is no way that Russia would allow this to happen and there is little doubt that it would use military force to prevent it. We can only hope that NATO (and Ukraine) have sense enough not to push this otherwise we could all be be in trouble. The ideal solution would have been for Ukraine to steer a middle course between the two power blocs. I honestly believe that Putin would have been content with that. Of course, that ship has sailed now. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/31 "2014-03-18T01:17:44Z")
Joining NATO was simply a pretext for what Putin was going to do anyway. Ukraine will join Russia voluntarily, or starring at a Russian tank turret. Ukraine’s choice. Not joining Russia was an option like Crimeans voting against Russia was an option. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/32 "2014-03-18T01:22:33Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > PastTense: > > Only if they’re not afraid of getting invaded and annexed further. I doubt anyone in Ukraine believes that Putin invaded Crimes because Crimea has any special meaning to him.They know he invaded because street protests ousted the pro-Russian president, and next time, it may be their region he invades and annexes. Well, AIUI, Crimea does have some special meaning to Russians, as [it was part of Russia until 1954](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea#In_the_Soviet_Union). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/33 "2014-03-18T02:13:48Z")
They gave it away, no backsies! ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/34 "2014-03-18T02:25:12Z")
BrainGlutton: > [@](#): > > Well, AIUI, Crimea does have some special meaning to Russians, as it was part of Russia until 1954. I’m well aware of that, but Putin had years to attempt to take Crimea, by force or other means, if he really wanted it. Why now, if annexation of Crimea to Russia was desirable to him? ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/35 "2014-03-18T02:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > isn’t it time we stop being the world police and worry about people at home? We stopped being isolationist at WW1, with Woodrow Wilson, the great (_cough_) Progressive president. There was a strong anti-war movement back then and it was summarily squashed by the government. We haven’t looked back since. The idea of taking care of the home first, with respect to US national foreign policy, has been dead for a very long time. That leads me to the answer to your question about why we are involved in this Crimea thing. History. Since we are the number one country, by far, in terms of military spending and in terms of GDP, and since we are seen by other countries as the big brother, and since we have taken on that role time and time again, our involvement is all about perception. In other words, given all of this history and our status, what would it _look_ like if we just stood by and said, “Meh, who cares about Crimea?” It’s funny because I have this tendency to say, “meh”, myself, but if we were silent I would be even more puzzled. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/36 "2014-03-18T02:47:29Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > BrainGlutton: > > I’m well aware of that, but Putin had years to attempt to take Crimea, by force or other means, if he really wanted it. Why now, if annexation of Crimea to Russia was desirable to him? Because an unusual opportunity was at hand? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/37 "2014-03-18T03:10:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Because an unusual opportunity was at hand? I am on the record of having strongly criticized **BrainGlutton** ’s view of the world and foreign policy ideas in particular, but this is right on the money. A very short time ago, Putin had basically exactly what he wanted: a “democratic” leader in Ukraine who was committed to being a Russian puppet. Then it all came crashing down in a very short span of time. But, one thing Putin knows very well is how to play power politics, and he was able to turn things around in record time. His enemies are acting rather impotently, and he’s got Europe over a barrel. Now he’s got Crimea in his pocket, and perhaps the rest of Ukraine next. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/38 "2014-03-18T04:20:21Z")
It’s a zero sum game. Russia wins Crimea, that means we lose Crimea. Our image has been besmirched. It was supposed to go the other way. Have some geo-political competitive spirit, man. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/39 "2014-03-18T13:09:25Z")
It might be worth noting the last time the West decided to fight the Russians after [it got some ideas about Crimea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War), it took three Empires and guest appearances by Austria and part of what is now Italy to get the Russians to rethink the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/40 "2014-03-18T13:31:55Z")
I am confused why Russia gets blamed for “annexing” Crimea. I thought Crimea voted overwhelmingly to join Russia. Do we think that vote is so faked that the will of the Crimean population is being thwarted? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935.md?page=3)