# Russia's Annexation of Crimea - Why do we care? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935 "2014-03-17T18:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/101 "2014-03-19T17:08:37Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Now THAT would be the end of the Putin regime. > > Putin should worry about not having the military might or the demographics necessary to prevent Chinese incursion into Siberia if he becomes entangled in Ukraine. SInce he’s pissed off the West, there will no one around to help him if/when that occurs. Why would the Chinese do that? They have never before in all their history coveted Siberia. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/102 "2014-03-19T17:08:46Z")
To expand: someone claimed that since Russia used to own Crimea, it’s ok for it to “re-claim” it. Someone else said that Russia used to own Ukraine, so should it be ok for it to “re-claim” Ukraine? Someone piped in and said that it was wrong to say that Russia owned Ukraine. Hence the argument. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/103 "2014-03-19T17:09:07Z")
Ok we get that you have something against Russia, but come on now. People didn’t say they were “from Russia” because they were owned by Russia. That’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/104 "2014-03-19T17:10:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Huh? How is the ethnicity makeup of people living in in area relevant to whether it belongs to a particular country or not? Quite often it is relevant to which country they **want** to belong to. That is what nationalism is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/105 "2014-03-19T17:24:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Quite often it is relevant to which country they **want** to belong to. That is what nationalism is all about. How is “what country they want to belong to” relevant to the actual fact of what country the region belongs to? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/106 "2014-03-19T17:26:03Z")
> [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#): > > Ok we get that you have something against Russia, but come on now. People didn’t say they were “from Russia” because they were owned by Russia. That’s silly. Ukraine was owned by Russia during Soviet times. By any definition of the word “owned”. It’s “silly” to say otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/107 "2014-03-19T17:37:03Z")
By any definition? Ok, where is the contract that says it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/108 "2014-03-19T17:56:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > To expand: someone claimed that since Russia used to own Crimea, it’s ok for it to “re-claim” it. Someone else said that Russia used to own Ukraine, so should it be ok for it to “re-claim” Ukraine? Someone piped in and said that it was wrong to say that Russia owned Ukraine. Hence the argument. Ah. Got it. > [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#): > > By any definition? Ok, where is the contract that says it? I’m not sure what you mean. Are you questioning whether Ukraine was part of the USSR? ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/109 "2014-03-19T18:01:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why would the Chinese do that? They have never before in all their history coveted Siberia. Let’s see: [ol] [li]Vast mineral resources, mostly untapped[/li][li]Global warming making most of the area more accessible.[/li][li]Thinly populated[/li][li]Serious issues with freshwater in China[/li][li]1.5 billion Chinese in an area only slightly larger than the US.[/li][/ol] In the past, Siberia’s cold prevented colonization and its mineral wealth was largely unknown. With those two matters changing, next to Australia (which lacks freshwater supplies) it’s only logical place on that side of the world for Chinese expansionism. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/110 "2014-03-19T18:13:37Z")
They aren’t particularly expansionist though, are they? ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/111 "2014-03-19T18:16:30Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not sure what you mean. Are you questioning whether Ukraine was part of the USSR? No, whether Russia owned Ukraine by every definition of ‘owned’. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/112 "2014-03-19T18:23:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > They aren’t particularly expansionist though, are they? I would ask the people of Tibet, Taiwan and Xianjiang if they share that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/113 "2014-03-19T18:32:16Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > They aren’t particularly expansionist though, are they? Not “officially”. But: [http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/08/11/12-Aug-12-World-View-Russia-warns-of-Chinese-occupation-of-Siberia-and-Far-East](http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2012/08/11/12-Aug-12-World-View-Russia-warns-of-Chinese-occupation-of-Siberia-and-Far-East) He added that “More than eight million foreign citizens [the Chinese - terr] came to Russia in the first six months of 2012 alone.” and [http://www.france24.com/en/20120928-reporters-siberia-chinese-immigration-russia-blagoveshchensk-farming-labourers-business-tensions/](http://www.france24.com/en/20120928-reporters-siberia-chinese-immigration-russia-blagoveshchensk-farming-labourers-business-tensions/) The Siberian city of Blagoveshchensk is located over 8,000 kilometres from Moscow, but barely 800 metres from China. The two countries are only separated by the Amur river. In winter, when it freezes over, the Amur can be crossed on foot. Until 1989, “Blago”, as the locals call it, was a closed city, off-limits to foreigners. These days it symbolises the growing Chinese influence in Russia’s Far East. Large parts of the economy have been taken over by the Chinese. Farmlands - abandoned former collective farms - are mostly run by Chinese migrants. Mixed marriages are common, and Chinese is the most popular foreign language, taught from school up to university. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/114 "2014-03-19T18:40:56Z")
> [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#): > > No, whether Russia owned Ukraine by every definition of ‘owned’. I would argue that they went a step futher and _pwned_ them. Ukraine was a breadbasket for Russia, until the [soviet collectivization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic) drove farming into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/115 "2014-03-19T19:40:01Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > I would ask the people of Tibet, Taiwan and Xianjiang if they share that assessment. China has it’s own, and basically unchanging, idea of what constitutes it’s traditional territory. I am pretty sure Siberia is not included. There’s other areas that ARE contentious between Russia and China though. And Taiwan is a pretty bad example, imho, because Taiwan actually separated from China realistically. Hardly “expansionist” for them to not recognize that. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/116 "2014-03-19T20:43:05Z")
[http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J620140319](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J620140319) Russia signaled concern on Wednesday at Estonia’s treatment of its large ethnic Russian minority, comparing language policy in the Baltic state with what it said was a call in Ukraine to prevent the use of Russian. Umm, you still wondering why we care, OP? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/117 "2014-03-19T20:49:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > They aren’t particularly expansionist though, are they? Consider [where they started](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xia_Dynasty). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/118 "2014-03-19T20:50:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Moscow signals concern for Russians in Estonia | Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/19/us-russia-estonia-idUSBREA2I1J620140319) > > Russia signaled concern on Wednesday at Estonia’s treatment of its large ethnic Russian minority, comparing language policy in the Baltic state with what it said was a call in Ukraine to prevent the use of Russian. > > Umm, you still wondering why we care, OP? Why do we care about Estonia, either? ---
**Author:** ![ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisUsernameIsForbidden)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/119 "2014-03-19T20:57:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I would argue that they went a step futher and _pwned_ them. Ukraine was a breadbasket for Russia, until the [soviet collectivization](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic) drove farming into the ground. The USSR pretty much pwned every republic, including Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935/120 "2014-03-19T20:59:39Z")
> [@ThisUsernameIsForbidden](#): > > The USSR pretty much pwned every republic, including Russia. It is silly (or stupid, if you prefer) to pretend that Russia was equal among equals in the Republics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-annexation-of-crimea-why-do-we-care/683935.md?page=7)