# Russia's Shame: Putin invites Islamic radicals to be castrated. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2002, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550 "2002-11-13T07:44:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/1 "2002-11-13T07:44:24Z")
[I ain’t making this shit up.](http://www.iht.com/articles/76800.htm) – IHT reports on deranged babblings from Russia’s head man. ``If you want to become a complete Islamic radical and are ready to undergo circumcision, then I invite you to Moscow. We are a multidenominational country. We have specialists in this question as well. I will recommend that he carry out the operation in such a way that after it nothing else will grow.’’ – Putin, advising a strange medical procedure. What the hell is the deal here? Is Putin seriously considering castrating all Moslems he thinks are radical? Does he think that inviting the radicals to get their balls chopped off will help the situation in the least? Is yet another madman in control of Russia? Eurasia, of all places, should know the horrors of forced sterilization. Between China and Germany, I think the megacontinent’s had about enough. But now Russia, headed by a latter-day Ivan the Terrible, wants to revive casual mutilation. Of course, the press wasn’t well-informed. The translators made `errors’ and the papers went with those. ``If you want to become an Islamic radical and if you’d like to get your circumcision, please come to Moscow. We are a multiconfessional, multiethnic nation. Please come. You are welcome and everything and everyone is tolerated in Moscow.’’ – The mistranslated version. > [@](#): > > Newspapers in Russia on Tuesday reported the president’s unusual words, according to news agencies. The daily Vremya Novosti ran the headline “Invitation to a circumcision” and the Gazeta daily ran one that said, “Putin suggests Europe get circumcised.” Circumcision is a far cry from castration, and the translators knew it. They conspired to hide their leader’s madness by presenting a sanitized front. Who knows how often this has happened in the past? Judging from past actions and his history, Putin is not going to negotiate with factions or pay much heed to the rules of war. He is going to destroy as much of Chechnya as he can, and he is going to do it under the pretext of killing Moslem radicals. Proper translation is essential if the world is going to avoid a repeat of Stalin’s purges. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/2 "2002-11-13T07:52:12Z")
New elements not mentioned by the International Herald Tribune: [http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,838729,00.html](http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,838729,00.html) – The Guardian reports on a downright frightening press conference. > [@](#): > > President Vladimir Putin has suggested that anyone who wants to criticise Russia’s campaign in Chechnya should join the rebels in their Islamist holy war, adding that they could enhance their prospects of being accepted into the ranks by travelling to Moscow to be circumcised. > > Visibly enraged at being lectured and questioned about his policies in Chechnya, the Russian president rounded bizarrely on a journalist from the French daily Le Monde who implied that his troops were killing innocent civilians by sowing mines indiscriminately in Chechnya. > > “If you are prepared to become the most radical Islamist and are prepared to get circumcised, I invite you to Moscow. We have specialists that deal with this problem,” he told the reporter. > > Mr Putin has repeatedly become tense and aggressive when asked about Chechnya.He famously vowed to wipe out all Chechen rebels after they had been “cornered in the shithouse”. That’s the meat, right there. Putin is angry about his precious genocide being questioned by the French and is equating skeptics with terrorists. I wonder if Siberia is still open to tourists on a _two-way_ basis. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/3 "2002-11-13T08:01:31Z")
[http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov2002/nf20021113\_7726.htm](http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov2002/nf20021113_7726.htm) – An interview with Grigory Yavlinsky, leader of the liberal Russian parliamentary faction Yabloko and one of the only people allowed to talk with the theater terrorists. > [@](#): > > **Q: In your Oct. 29 meeting with Putin, did he give any indication of whether he was ready for any type of negotiations to broker a peaceful resolution to the Chechnya conflict?** > A: He indicated he was considering the possibility of…some kind of negotiations, but I can’t say for sure he’s going to take this option. > > **Q: Why?** > A: Because he has never [negotiated]. We have discussed this many times in the past, and we [have always] come to the conclusion that we have different views. Putin says he’s responsible for the state and for the future of the state, and I say that I’m responsible for the people, for their health, and for their lives. His philosophy is that the state does not talk to terrorists, period. It’s a kind of Israeli approach. He is not alone in this. It’s also a kind of Stalinist approach. Putin isn’t going to negotiate any more than Stalin would have. Putin wants to crush Chechnya and all other opposition and he is not going to listen to anyone who disagrees. After all, critics must be terrorists and should be castrated. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/4 "2002-11-13T11:01:11Z")
Putin’s very bright, but he needs a PR course. And a change of policies, obviously. He doesn’t scare me half as much as Yeltzin did, but MAN, they should have let Gorbatchev finish what he started. The country would be in a far better shape now, and Chechenya would probably not even be occupied anymore. Oh, to the OP: since when is having ones balls chopped off “casual mutulation”? Did I miss a memo? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/5 "2002-11-13T11:02:00Z")
Oh, and please tell me _Le Monde_ at least made some wisecracks about Putins name. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![airdisc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19adc/32.png) [@airdisc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/airdisc)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/6 "2002-11-13T12:04:10Z")
I think Putin was just angry at the Muslim fundies for the theatre attack last month. We wern’t exactly flowers and sunshine about them after 9/11 either. I think you’re making wayyyyy too much of this. After all, we generally said we were going to kill all the fundies, which is, IMO, far worse than being invited to castration. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/7 "2002-11-13T12:24:20Z")
Really **airdisc**? Can you point me to the quote from the leader of your country saying such a thing. Angry Joe public spouting crap is one thing but the leader of the country is something completely different. The people of Moscow better baton down the hatches as this attitude is going to make a fucked up situation even more so. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/8 "2002-11-13T15:23:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*Putin’s very bright, but he needs a PR course. And a change of policies, obviously. He doesn’t scare me half as much as Yeltzin did, but MAN, they should have let Gorbatchev finish what he started. The country would be in a far better shape now, and Chechenya would probably not even be occupied anymore. > > \*\* Putin is normally very politically savvy; he certainly knows what needs to be said for world consumption. If he’s calm and rational enough to think about it, anyway. I think he’s finally blown his stack in re: the Chechens. I’d been trying to withold judgement about him, but as if the past years of total destruction and human rights violations hadn’t already been enough, now he’s just proven that he doesn’t give a damn what the rest of the world thinks of what he is doing in Chechnya. It’s very sad, because I love Russia and I love the Russians (and the North Caucasians for that matter), and they are generally much misunderstood. I’m losing hope for the place at a faster and faster rate, though, at least in terms of observing anything approaching international human rights norms. Kenneth Roth, the director of Human Rights Watch, spoke here in Chicago a couple of weeks ago, and I got to ask him what he thought the U.S. could do to influence the Chechen situation. He basically implied that we wouldn’t do a damn thing, because we need Russia’s vote on the Security Council on “antiterrorism” issues. So what’s a poor, frustrated human rights activist to do? Perhaps good ol’ Vlad is willing to serve as a test case for Russian surgical skill, if he has anything left to operate on? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/9 "2002-11-13T15:24:07Z")
Putin’s frustrated. The war in Chechnya’s been going on for 8 years, without any real end in sight, there’s just been that major terrorist incident, and he’s tired of all the European criticism. After all, from his standpoint, he’s the good guy. He’s trying to keep his country together and stop the threat of Islam and Muslim extremism. So, the French reporter starts asking him what he sees as criticizing questions about Chechnya, and he snaps and answers, “Look, these Chechens are a danger to all of Christendom. If you like the Chechens so much, why don’t you go all the way and become an Islamic radical yourself? Come to Moscow. We have good doctors who can circumcize you. Maybe we’ll be lucky and they’ll cut off everything.” So, he wasn’t making a policy decision. He just got pissed and told a hostle reporter he’d cut off the reporter’s balls. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/10 "2002-11-13T16:45:00Z")
**Derleth** : > [@](#): > > Putin is angry about his precious genocide being questioned by the French and is equating skeptics with terrorists. Damn! Where the heck does he think he is, the United States? ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/11 "2002-11-13T17:19:47Z")
huh? since when does circumcision = castration? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/12 "2002-11-13T17:26:20Z")
I’ll see if I can find an original-language source and tell you for sure what word he used. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/13 "2002-11-13T17:56:25Z")
> [@](#): > > since when does circumcision = castration? When the actual statement comes out as > [@](#): > > . . . We have specialists in this question as well. I will recommend that he carry out the operation in such a way that _ **after it nothing else will grow.** _ (Highlighting mine.) (Maybe he was just channeling St. Paul as he got the the end of the fifth chapter of his letter to the Galatians?) ---
**Author:** ![airdisc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19adc/32.png) [@airdisc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/airdisc)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/14 "2002-11-13T21:41:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*Really **airdisc**? Can you point me to the quote from the leader of your country saying such a thing. > > Angry Joe public spouting crap is one thing but the leader of the country is something completely different. > > The people of Moscow better baton down the hatches as this attitude is going to make a fucked up situation even more so. \*\* He said he’d starve them to death here: [http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/ret.bush.transcript/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/24/ret.bush.transcript/index.html) And Bush has said on MANY occasions that he wants to kill the terrorists. Does it make him insane or a madman? No. Same thing applies with Putin. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/15 "2002-11-13T21:55:05Z")
Boy, it’s like he wants to get testy or something. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/16 "2002-11-13T22:29:56Z")
Well, I poked around, and can’t find the full text of Putin’s remarks, but the Russian press is referring to _obrezanie_ (circumcision), not castration. Happily, I also discovered a more in-depth Russia-based news source with an English version, which might interest some of you. Beware, though: the Russian version isn’t word-for-word the same, and the editorial focus is somewhat different. [http://gazeta.ru/english/](http://gazeta.ru/english/) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/17 "2002-11-13T22:38:05Z")
Add R and A to Putin’s name, and what do you have? _Rasputin_!!! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/18 "2002-11-13T22:41:32Z")
[gazeta.ru](http://gazeta.ru)’s take on the conference, in part (bolding mine): "Putin continued his rant, saying: ‘‘If you are an American – you are in danger. If you are a Christian you are in danger. If you are an atheist – you are also in danger. And even if you decide to become a Muslim and to get circumcised, you will probably still be in danger. I know many places in Moscow where this [operation] can be performed. I recommend you do it so that nothing ever grows there again.’’ The outburst was followed by a terrible silence in the conference hall. It seemed to take the audience some time to digest Putin’s words. Then he went on: ‘‘If we do not fight the bandits, we will have them not only in Moscow, New York and Washington, we will have them in many other countries of the world.’’ \*\*What circumcision and the places in Moscow where it can be done have to do with combating terrorism, none of those present could quite fathom. Presidential aides, forced to explain what he had meant by those words after the news conference, said that the President ‘‘was exhausted’’, and that ‘‘he is sick and tired of Chechnya’’. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Zoff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/6de8d8/32.png) [@Zoff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoff)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2002, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/19 "2002-11-13T22:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Guinastasia_ > Add R and A to Putin’s name, and what do you have? > > Rasputin!!! Psst…Guinastasia, I’ll sell you an S for cheap. 😃 Maybe they are related. I seem to recall reading that this Rasputin fellow was also somewhat obsessed with penises. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550/20 "2002-11-14T17:13:56Z")
Yeah, because, of course, western politicians, and especially US presidents, never have outbursts and never have words which were intended to be private reported to the public. Gimme a break. Anyone trying to make a big deal out of this is just playing games. The fact is that Putin had his own translator and the only words issued officially are those spoken by the translator which did not contain these words. I have seen plenty of outbursts and missteps by Western diplomats. Give Putin a break on this and feel free to criticize him on substantive issues. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russias-shame-putin-invites-islamic-radicals-to-be-castrated/136550.md?page=2)