# RWs are not stupid; it's much worse than that **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856 "2012-05-23T17:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/61 "2012-05-24T14:33:01Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > If evidence against books like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion was so compelling, being a gigantic anti-Semite would not be dangerous in many environments. > Admirable wishes, admirable wishes. Maybe one day we’ll make the world safe for anti-black racists too, and the Bell Curve can be shouted from the rooftops of firebombed black churches. Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an obvious forgery. In order to hate Jews one must believe things about them that are not only untrue, but preposterous, or one must resent things that are true and worthy of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/62 "2012-05-24T14:43:25Z")
\ Since the OP says RW it should be pointed out that it’s quite specific to the American RW. Many of the positions listed are not intrinsically RW and skew differently outside the US (e.g. the LW is more anti-science in some countries). ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/63 "2012-05-24T14:50:42Z")
Sir Cyril Burt’s results were fabricated too. It’d be a fallacy of association to claim any studies on racial differences in intelligence are thus invalidated or politically driven. On the other hand, there have been numerous replications on studies of intergroup discrimination which have found powerful evidence that people will discriminate against outgroups based on arbitrary differences. Other studies having shown that people have a self-serving attribution bias (also referred to in the fundamental attribution error) where bad things happening to them are the result of a situation and bad things happening to others are a result of their disposition. Also relevant is research done into the “Other Race Effect” and deindividuation. These psychological concepts should inform us that others likely have similar motivations to us and that we should guard against our natural inclination to treat others by different standards than we apply to those within our Dunbar limits. That said, I can sympathise with someone growing up with little exposure to individuals with other ethnicities, that may have been accustomed to bigoted views and is now bombarded with the opposite message. I think international solidarity will ultimately win out, but it is frustrating thinking that central aspects of one’s philosophy will never reenter the public conscious. Edit: > [@Mijin](#): > > the LW is more anti-science in some countries I struggled to think of examples, but you’re quite correct. The Animal Liberation Front has been hostile to animal testing for instance. If that were a more important battleground than global warming or evolution, it is plausible that scientists may be disenfranchised. That said, there are soft positions on the topic of animal rights such as Dawkin’s own support for the Great Ape Project (not that he’s right wing, he wrote in the annotations to the Selfish Gene that he voted for the Socialist party int he elections). Then there was the quashing of genetics (especially, the execution of Nikolai Vavilov) by the Soviet Union. Informed out of left-wing authoritarian sentiments, which ultimately do not trump reality. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/64 "2012-05-24T15:00:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … “might” … “might” … “might” IIRC, you’d request a cite if you thought the facts were on your side. If you had the gumption to click OP’s link to the leftist blog Wikipedia, you’d find several links to peer-reviewed scientific studies. Do you want one of the Wikipedia editors to add a note to that article? Something like “despite these studies, John Mace says they ‘might’ not be valid.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/65 "2012-05-24T15:03:56Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I’ll step up…and there is even proof on the Dope. There are many good examples on the Dope of me saying, “I was wrong.” (Kinda scary, actually, the frequency!!) But on a change of political view, not purely acknowledging a factual error, but rather a series of factual assumptions that led to a fundamental political opinion… I can think of two for me: the “War on Christmas,” and same-sex marriage. On the former, I was convinced that there’s simply no phenomenon worthy of that name, and on the latter, I became persuaded that legalized same-sex marriage was the correct state for marriage law. I’d be very interested in hearing similar stories from the OP. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/66 "2012-05-24T15:06:41Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Mooney’s article … devotes a huge amount of time to an article in Conservapedia about the theory of relativity. No one can know who wrote the article or whether or not it was intended as a joke. 😕 😕 Have you conflated Conservapedia with Wikipedia? While the latter website allows any idiot, anarchist, Islamist or right-wing freak to edit its pages, Conservapedia, believe it or don’t, strictly screens the top-flight intellectuals permitted to edit its precious pages. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Deegeea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Deegeea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deegeea)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/67 "2012-05-24T15:07:08Z")
The refusal of right wingers to accept evolution and man made global warming as fact is not evidence of their brains being different. It’s evidence of a general human trait of being unwilling to accept evidence (sufficient to convince a disinterested party) that goes against deeply held beliefs. The same trait can be seen in the relatives of convicted criminals believing in their innocence. Right wingers differ in their deeply held beliefs, not in their ability to accept fact. That said, it is still true that the general way of convincing for the right in current USA politics depends more on appeal to beliefs, and the general way of convincing for the left depends more on appeal to facts. I would say this is because the dividing line has moved right, so the current left is more centrist/neutral, so the facts are currently more on the side of the left. At times in the past, this has been less the case, hence the (above mentioned) examples of 60s era left wing refusal to acknowledge fact. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/68 "2012-05-24T16:01:01Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > That said, I can sympathise with someone growing up with little exposure to individuals with other ethnicities, that may have been accustomed to bigoted views and is now bombarded with the opposite message. I think international solidarity will ultimately win out, but it is frustrating thinking that central aspects of one’s philosophy will never reenter the public conscious. You can overcome this. I grew up in a very (VERY) rural area predominately White. Essentially 100% White. We had an oil boom which brought in all sort of characters. Some of them were a wave of Hispanics. My dad was adamant the Hispanics were lazy. lazy lazy lazy. This was hard to believe because as I was around playing (I was like 10) and I would see hordes of Hispanics roofing houses, working construction etc and they seem to be working HARD. Even at 10 and in the 70’s I was questioning what I heard adults say about race. I wasn’t the only one either. Like other posters have said…the children are not their parents…sometimes you just need to let the elders die off and you will see a change in opinions… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/69 "2012-05-24T16:12:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There are many good examples on the Dope of me saying, “I was wrong.” (Kinda scary, actually, the frequency!!) > > But on a change of political view, not purely acknowledging a factual error, but rather a series of factual assumptions that led to a fundamental political opinion… I can think of two for me: the “War on Christmas,” and same-sex marriage. > > On the former, I was convinced that there’s simply no phenomenon worthy of that name, and on the latter, I became persuaded that legalized same-sex marriage was the correct state for marriage law. > > I’d be very interested in hearing similar stories from the OP. The only problem with that is some people look at issues before forming opinions. It’s laudable that you will change your opinion once in a great while, but it would be better if you formed your opinions based on facts in evidence in the first place. As an aside, I personally, was very anti-nuke when I was younger. But then I did research and understood I was basing my ideas on polemics, not reasoned debates. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/70 "2012-05-24T16:15:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Have you conflated Conservapedia with Wikipedia? While the latter website allows any idiot, anarchist, Islamist or right-wing freak to edit its pages, Conservapedia, believe it or don’t, strictly screens the top-flight intellectuals permitted to edit its precious pages. I was curious about this, so I created an account there to check. Although it seems that a lot of the more contentious articles on Conservapedia are locked down (e.g. [atheism](http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism)), most aren’t, including the article on the theory of relativity. I made a tiny edit there — replacing straight quotes with curly quotes in one place — and it went through without issue. … now why, exactly, relativistic physics is such a sore point for them baffles me, but there you go. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/71 "2012-05-24T16:21:03Z")
Relativistic physics —\> moral relativism —\> socialism —\> communism —\> the Obamachrist ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/72 "2012-05-24T16:26:07Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Relativistic physics —\> moral relativism —\> socialism —\> communism —\> the Obamachrist The church of Obamachrist gives the Eucharist with an Oreo. _Fact_. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/73 "2012-05-24T16:30:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The church of Obamachrist gives the Eucharist with an Oreo. _Fact_. Sadly, [the creator of the Oreo filling, Mr. Oreo, just died](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/celebrating-life-sam-porcello-man-developed-filling-oreos-article-1.1080508)… For our sins. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/74 "2012-05-24T16:41:57Z")
Glory to the twist, the lick, and the dunk. As it was in the beginning, is now, and forever shall be, fluff without end. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/75 "2012-05-24T16:44:08Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The church of Obamachrist gives the Eucharist with an Oreo. _Fact_. Point me at the baptismal font. I’m there. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/76 "2012-05-24T17:15:01Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Point me at the baptismal font. I’m there. Which is, of course, filled with milk. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/77 "2012-05-24T17:21:51Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I was curious about this, so I created an account there to check. Although it seems that a lot of the more contentious articles on Conservapedia are locked down (e.g. [atheism](http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism)), most aren’t, including the article on the theory of relativity. I sit corrected. I tried a similar experiment several years ago and my account wasn’t approved. I don’t know if they’ve changed their policy, I was editing contentious article, or, perhaps, have confused Conservapedia with some other Rightwingapedia. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/78 "2012-05-24T19:51:08Z")
Well, I went in search of some evidence. In the “[Is GOP trying to sabotage economy to hurt Obama](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=652862)” thread, ralph124c dropped this gem: > [@](#): > > -hundreds of billions given to failed “green energy” companies (Solyndra, Fiskars etc.) > -enormous new taxes coming (causing firms to drop expansion plans, limit hiring) > -huge, concealed unemployment (government doesn’t count “discouraged” workers) > -tremendous expansion of national debt" Full of easily refuted talking points. So I went looking to see if Ralph had spouted these before and been shown the truth of the situation. **Green energy:** Ralph actually started a thread on this: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=624343&highlight=Solyndra](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=624343&highlight=Solyndra) In posts 5 & 7 it was shown that Bush started the program and it’s a non-story. However, here he is spouting the same talking point 8 months later. _(Note: I stopped after posts 5&7 as they demonstrated that he has been acquainted with the facts of the situation. There may also be other threads in which this was discussed and he participated)_ **Unemployment:** In the “[To all Obama apologists on the economy, You need to go fuck yourselves today](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647949&highlight=unemployment&page=4http://)” thread. We get this nice little gem from him at post 152 > [@](#): > > The news is out-more people are filing for unemployemt benefits. Despite hundreds of billions spent on “stimulus” projects (including billions thrown away on “green” energy projects). Unemployment is still above 8.2%. > Of course, if you count discouraged job seekers, and people who have given up (and retired), the unemployment rate is probably over 16%. First, notice the part about solyndra, yet again, 7 months after he posted the one I mentioned above and a month before his latest posting. Now, regarding unemployment, he was immediately schooled that the government has been doing unemployment this way for 70 years and that nobody is “concealing” anything. (see post 158 of that thread for a specific rebuttal) **New taxes:** I have to let this one go as he said “tax increase coming” (future tense). Obama _does_ want to raise taxes. Enormous wouldn’t be my choice of adjectives, but whatever. At least he’s not saying Obama _raised_ taxes enormously (past tense). **Tremendous expansion of national debt:** This was a bit tricker to track down. Ralph actually started two threads which I’ll cover. In “[Obama Sets up Commission to ‘Fight’ the Deficit!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=561210&highlight=deficit)” he states > [@](#): > > You can’t make this up-this guy has driven the deficit and national debt to record levels-and now he has decided that we need to reduce the deficit! . A lot of people tell him he’s an idiot and wrong, but nobody in the thread really detailed where the deficits came from, so I’m willing to pass on this one. However, in another thread of his, “[Was the ‘Stimulus’ worth it?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=614997&highlight=deficit)” he states > [@](#): > > Drudge reports that each stimuls job “created” cost $278,000. > So, was increasing the National Debt by trilions worth this? > My impression is that the stimulus was used to fund local and state government-it did not fund any new public works projects. > Would it have been cheaper to just pay extended unemployment insurace? > Or , has the stimulis created an expectation that government cannot be allowed to shrink? (Geithner “we cannot ct our way to prosperity”). > At any rate, what will Obama try next year? More deficit spending? and by post 3 he was given a breakdown of the deficit. So here we have clear cut proof of at least one conservative being disabused of his incorrect facts and either completely ignoring the corrections made to him, or just plain not caring about what the facts of the situation are. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/79 "2012-05-24T20:18:11Z")
> [@Deegeea](#): > > The refusal of right wingers to accept evolution and man made global warming as fact is not evidence of their brains being different. It’s evidence of a general human trait of being unwilling to accept evidence (sufficient to convince a disinterested party) that goes against deeply held beliefs. The same trait can be seen in the relatives of convicted criminals believing in their innocence. Right wingers differ in their deeply held beliefs, not in their ability to accept fact. I can grant you that acceptance of evolution might go against deeply held beliefs. But global warming? Opposition to the fact of global warming seems to come from those whose businesses might be damaged by having to pay for the damage they do. Some of the media naturally support what business wants, some get funded by business to produce disinformation, and the masses who buy into this despite the evidence are doing so out of other motives. It might be that whatever the “liberals” say is wrong, it might be that Fox News is always right, it might be from lack of critical thinking. But I doubt any church has man cannot make the world warmer at the center of its belief system. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856/80 "2012-05-24T21:37:20Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But I doubt any church has man cannot make the world warmer at the center of its belief system. Ah, but a lot of the opposition to global warming _is_ religious. It basically goes along the lines of “only God can destroy the world, so nothing man does can.” They essentially believe that man is incapable of causing catastrophic damage to Earth because they won’t be allowed to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rws-are-not-stupid-its-much-worse-than-that/622856.md?page=5)