# Rzorsharp's Gonna Cry... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571 "2004-11-02T17:08:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/141 "2004-11-11T13:48:46Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Hmm… where to begin. If the SBVFT did not come out with their info, how else would CBS get it? > > Why would CBS not want to use the info just because the SBVFT came out with it? > > How about if the SBVFT did come out with their info, what would prevent CBS from giving it the same treatment as the forged documents. > > CBS didn’t have the forged documents until Bill Burkett came out with them. Bill Burkett, a man Michael Hedges of the Houston Chronicle describes as having “a well-established history of Bush loathing”. > [http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2799919](http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2799919) I honestly don’t know how to explain this any clearer. The big difference here, that many people have been explaining to you, is that the SBVFT info was all over the place. If CBS ran a story on it, it wouldn’t be noteworthy, because everyone with a broadcasting signal was pumping out SBVFT info (even if it was via their own commercials). The forged documents were a scoop, and a CBS exclusive (for television at least). Blast CBS on the documents all you want. You’re not going to get a lot of liberals whining and complaining about it, no one doubts their unveracity(?). Again, the point is, if CBS had an anti-Kerry exclusive, they’d have aired it in a second. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/142 "2004-11-11T15:47:47Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Just goes to show - \*\*conservative blowhards \*\* really are hypocritical, trite, emotionally mal-adjusted weasels who can’t prove anything so just shout louder. Gomi, you mispelled **razorsharp** there. Seriously, let’s not make any generalizations here. Razor is a wanker of an entirely different sort. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/143 "2004-11-11T16:50:53Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Gomi, you mispelled **razorsharp** there. > > Seriously, let’s not make any generalizations here. Razor is a wanker of an entirely different sort. Point taken, and my apologies to conservative blowhards everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/144 "2004-11-11T17:15:31Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Point taken, and my apologies to conservative blowhards everywhere. What about us conservatives who _aren’t_ blowhards? :dubious: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/145 "2004-11-11T21:17:52Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Blast CBS on the documents all you want. You’re not going to get a lot of liberals whining and complaining about it, no one doubts their unveracity(?). Of course you’re not. Liberals are partisan to the point of sacrificing the truth for thier own ideology. Your typical rank-and-file liberal holds the same allegience to their political party, as the typical sportsfan holds to his favorite team. That does not bode well for the traditional American ideals of individual freedom and liberty. > [@](#): > > Again, the point is, if CBS had an anti-Kerry exclusive, they’d have aired it in a second. Tell ya what, instead of trying to read tea-leaves, let’s just look at what acutally happened. CBS got documents from a known Bush-basher, were warned that the documents may be forgeries, but went ahead and aired the story anyway. It was both irresponsible and negligent. See, and **Ekers** , you might want to listen-up too, there are other factors that the media must take into account besides ratings and profit. That would be credibility. Of course, knowing their audience, CBS probably didn’t have much to worry about in the credibility department, because, as you say, “You’re not going to get a lot of liberals whining and complaining about it.” No, you’re not going to get liberals complaining about it, as long as it portrayed Bush in a negative light. But there certainly was a lot of rending of garments and gnashing of teeth over the Swiftboad Vets. And despite all the wailing over the Swiftboat Vets, the Swiftboat Vets have every bit as much, if not more credibility than Bill Burkett. > [@](#): > > unveracity(?) Just plain old “veracity” would work. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/146 "2004-11-11T21:18:05Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > Just goes to show - conservative blowhards really are hypocritical, trite, emotionally mal-adjusted weasels who can’t prove anything so just shout louder. Isn’t this a trait of blowhards generally, regardless of their political leanings? It certainly applies to leftists on (or formerly on) this board like Diogenes, sevastapol, the great dalmuti and arguably that chumpsky guy who was a hard-core commie. Each of them, I’ve observed, can casually responds to challenge with either insult or increasingly preposterous/unprovable claims, including the good old “You’re a Nazi” defense. ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/147 "2004-11-11T22:03:11Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > The thing is Razor, you don’t seem to attack liberal ideology so much as you attack liberals. That’s just because when one attacks the liberal ideology, liberals take it personally. > [@](#): > > Take your exchange with Bryan in this thread. Your primary point seemed to be that Bryan was “drinking the Kool-Aid,” a veiled reference to his gullibility. Now there is yet to be proof of CBS either trying to influence the election or fatten wallets, but you pretty much refused to even address his points going instead for the cheap shot/quip approach. **norinew** took umbrage with my assessment of her being a liberal. (norinew has a feminine tone) Well, she makes liberal sounds. Now we get to you. A favorite tactic of liberals is to accuse an advesary of something just to put them on the defensive. That’s just what you did when you accuse me of: > [@](#): > > you pretty much refused to even address his points going instead for the cheap shot/quip approach. That’s bullshit, dude. I addressed a litany of **Eker’s** points in posts [#64](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5458076&postcount=64) and [#79](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5468660&postcount=79) And I nailed **Ekers** ’ ass to the wall when he let this slip. > [@](#): > > As a side note, I’m not inclined to get angry at CBS, since the story in question was pissant muckraking to begin with (so Bush dodged Vietnam thirty years ago? who cares?). Had they screwed up on a story of actual significance, no doubt I’d feel more strongly on the matter. In any case, I don’t see how this proves CBS thinks viewers are sheep, nor does it say anything about the media generally. Let’s see… Ekers describes the story as “pissant muckraking” and insignificant. But **Ekers** insists that CBS rushed a insignificant and “pissant muckraking” story, for ratings and profit? Sorry, that just don’t add up. > [@](#): > > Simply stated, you’re a pointless twit. If and when you get banned, it won’t be because of your politics. Well, here’s how it is. You’re braindead and I ain’t goin’ to get banned. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/148 "2004-11-11T22:49:31Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Ekers describes the story as “pissant muckraking” and insignificant. But **Ekers** insists that CBS rushed a insignificant and “pissant muckraking” story, for ratings and profit? Sorry, that just don’t add up. Well, get a new abacus, boy, because you’re a few beads shy. As I recall, I specifically stated: > [@Me](#): > > Well, it had no significance to **me** , but CBS must have thought it would be significant to **somebody** , and enough sombodies to cause a rise in ratings. The lack of significance (to me) is why I can’t get excited about this, and why i’m not inclined to see at an indictment of “the media” in general. That was me attempting to explain my lack of outrage for the second or third time and you _still_ don’t get it? LOOOO-zer! This is fun. Keep it coming. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/149 "2004-11-11T22:53:56Z")
By the way, these uses of “ain’t” and “don’t add up” come straight from “Doctor Phil’s Guide to Exaggerating Southern Mannerisms in Order to Appear Wise”, doesn’t it? ‘Cause if you gotta sell a heapin’ dose of good ol’ advice, you best wrap an apple pie 'round it, hear? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/150 "2004-11-11T23:07:13Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > **Shodan** and **John Mace** - I admit, I kinda lost my cool there in Razorsharp’s latest troll I mean GD thread when I said ‘This is dumb even for you’.’ I don’t have a defence for that… Just for the record, and to be clear, I didn’t agree with Shodan that your comment was against the rules. **RS** , who is quick to throw out insults (veiled and otherwise), lost his “right” to expect civil discourse long ago. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2004, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/151 "2004-11-11T23:24:07Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > norinew took umbrage with my assessment of her being a liberal. (norinew has a feminine tone) Well, she makes liberal sounds. Okay, first off, everyone take note! **Razorsharp** in unequivocally right! I _am_ female! As far as “making liberal sounds”, I take this to mean, in “RazorSpeak” that I don’t agree with him on everything down the line. Come to think about it, he’s right about that, too; that’s twice in one post. If he doesn’t knock it off, he may actually gain some credibility. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/152 "2004-11-12T07:02:50Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > What about us conservatives who _aren’t_ blowhards? :dubious: 😉 What are you conservatives, made of glass? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/153 "2004-11-12T12:43:58Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > What are you conservatives, made of glass? 😉 nah, we’re the conservatives what _don’t_ have summer homes under bridges somewhere 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/154 "2004-11-12T13:24:51Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, get a new abacus, boy, because you’re a few beads shy. As I recall, I specifically stated: > > That was me attempting to explain my lack of outrage for the second or third time and you _still_ don’t get it? LOOOO-zer! > > This is fun. Keep it coming. No, that’s what you stated when you were weaseling out of initially calling the story “pissant muckraking”, and “the story had no real significance”. See, I was able to rub your nose in that, because if your true sentiments were that the story had no real significance, then that didn’t jive with your defending CBS with the “ratings and profit” motive. When I nailed your simple ass on that, then you went into the, > [@](#): > > but CBS must have thought it would be significant to somebody, and enough sombodies to cause a rise in ratings weaseling. See, you didn’t think it significant, but surely CBS must have, otherwise you are exposed as one who is willing to just make things up as a last measure of defending your personally constructed version of reality, while it all comes crumbling down around you. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/155 "2004-11-12T13:50:45Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > No, that’s what you stated when you were weaseling out of initially calling the story “pissant muckraking”, and “the story had no real significance”. See, I was able to rub your nose in that, because if your true sentiments were that the story had no real significance, then that didn’t jive with your defending CBS with the “ratings and profit” motive. When I nailed your simple ass on that, then you went into the, weaseling. Well, for the fourth time, I’ll just state that the story didn’t strike _me_ as significant **and** CBS has profit as a major motivation. If you want to keep kicking that horse, (or offering it drinks of kool-aid), go right ahead. > [@](#): > > See, you didn’t think it significant, but surely CBS must have, Yes, I believe I said that _a few days ago_. > [@](#): > > otherwise you are exposed as one who is willing to just make things up as a last measure of defending your personally constructed version of reality, while it all comes crumbling down around you. That’s funny. What exactly am I making up? That it was a dumb story? That CBS thought it would strike viewers as significant, especially since it was close to election day? That CBS screwed up? Get your head on straight and get back to me because these questions are truly the most important ones of our time. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/156 "2004-11-12T14:59:49Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Just for the record, and to be clear, I didn’t agree with Shodan that your comment was against the rules. **RS** , who is quick to throw out insults (veiled and otherwise), lost his “right” to expect civil discourse long ago. Thanks for that. I’m not denying I was skipping awful close to the line, but I was pretty careful to stay on the right side of it. Oh, and **norinew** - that’s damn funny! Anyone we know fit that description? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/157 "2004-11-12T15:46:20Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Oh, and norinew - that’s damn funny! Anyone we know fit that description? Well, I’m always happy, sir, to know that I’m amusing sometimes. As far as knowing anyone who fits that description, no, I don’t _personally_ know anyone like that. I have a very sheltered existence. ---
**Author:** ![Razorsharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/53a042/32.png) [@Razorsharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razorsharp)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/158 "2004-11-14T12:56:36Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, for the fourth time, I’ll just state that the story didn’t strike _me_ as significant **and** CBS has profit as a major motivation. Right, but if **you** didn’t see the story as significant, then how could **you** see it that CBS would air an insignificant story for ratings and profit? Your two different opinions do not add up. Not only do you want to have it both ways, you have to have it both ways. And what does it say, when a major news organization puts it’s motive for making a profit, ahead of the truth? > [@](#): > > What exactly am I making up? You are making up the “ratings and profit” excuse. Funny how some have said, “Untill I see actual evidence”, such as an internal memo that admits CBS’s complicity in a scheme to influence the vote, then they refuse to entertain the concept of such shenanigans by a major network. But yet, they willingly accept the idea that the ressurection of a thirty-year old story, that does not differ from the party-line of the last four years, is “breaking news”. Let me tell you something. You have about as much of a chance to see an internal memo admitting that CBS aired the “forged documents” story to influence the vote, as you have seeing an internal memo admitting that they aired the story for ratings and profit. And your funniest line of all: > [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I’m confident you’ll never be able to outargue me. Just like clubbin’ baby seals. Now to **norinew**. What are you doing attributing quotes to me that I didn’t make? Having trouble keeping a train of thought? Can’t keep me out of your head, can ya? Deep down inside, you’re hot for me, aren’t ya. Go ahead, admit it. It’s either that, or ya ain’t too smart afterall. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/159 "2004-11-14T15:45:52Z")
> [@Razorsharp](#): > > Now to norinew. What are you doing attributing quotes to me that I didn’t make? Having trouble keeping a train of thought? Can’t keep me out of your head, can ya? Deep down inside, you’re hot for me, aren’t ya. Go ahead, admit it. Well, I would admit that I’m hot for you, but it isn’t true, and I’m not in the habit of being dishonest. As for misattributing that quote, you’re right; you didn’t say that. **GomiBoy** did. I do indeed have trouble keeping a train of thought sometimes, as I have two teenagers and a four-year-old who believe it is their mission in life to derail me. My apologies for the error. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571/160 "2004-11-14T23:27:53Z")
Much as I hate to further glorify Razorsharp by continuing this thread, I just can’t help myself. > [@Razorsharp](#): > > That’s just because when one attacks the liberal ideology, liberals take it personally. Let’s look at that liberal ideology. In post [#39](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5452569&postcount=39) you list it as > [@Razorsharp](#): > > Blatant hypocrisy > Welfare broodmares > Those who play the racecard > A “free press” that attempts to influence an election > An entertainment media that attempts to brainwash the populace Show me a liberal that supports this stuff. Hell, show me anyone that supports this sort of thing. The only thing objectionable would seem to be what you think falls into these categories. A better example would be saying that all conservatives support war mongering, leaving the poor out in the cold, helping the wealthy, and destroying the environment. > [@Razorsharp](#): > > Now we get to you. A favorite tactic of liberals is to accuse an advesary of something just to put them on the defensive. That’s just what you did when you accuse me of:That’s bullshit, dude. I addressed a litany of **Eker’s** points in posts [#64](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5458076&postcount=64) and [#79](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5468660&postcount=79) > > And I nailed **Ekers** ’ ass to the wall when he let this slip.Let’s see… Ekers describes the story as “pissant muckraking” and insignificant. But **Ekers** insists that CBS rushed a insignificant and “pissant muckraking” story, for ratings and profit? Sorry, that just don’t add up. Well, here’s how it is. You’re braindead and I ain’t goin’ to get banned. Now here you almost had me. Post 64 was you circling Ekers with accusations about what you think happened at CBS, much like he is doing with you. No facts here, just suspiscion. Post 79 was straight garbage, and was actually the post when you went off on your Kool-Aid obsession. Your first three sentences consist of > [@Razorsharp](#): > > In this case, \*\*you’re drinkin’ CBS’s Kool-Aid \*\* with the rush to get out the “ratings and profit” excuse. > > Ah, **you just took a big ol’ gulp.** See, the story was what, thirty plus years old? The only reason that CBS took any interest in the story, was because of the upcoming election. > > Only because they got caught. Of course, tomndebb, **he’s a Kool-Aid drinker too** , he calls CBS’s getting caught, a “self-correcting mechanism”. Skipping the next sentence we find > [@Razorsharp](#): > > Hellfire, man, are ya listening to yourself? You just said that the story had no significance, but yet, CBS rushes to get out a story that has no significance, for ratings and profit. **Now, you’re gaggin’ on the Kool-Aid**. and > [@Razorsharp](#): > > Bullshit, all you ever did was put forth the excuse that CBS’s motive was ratings and profit. That’s the standard excuse allotted the media whenever the media, whether news or entertainment, is criticized for the product that they inflict on society. **The Kool-Aid drinkers always come up with the canards** , “The media is only giving the people what they want.” Or, “The media is just like any other business, they want to make a profit.” Maybe you should just stick to the pit and IMHO since your debating style seems to lack a factual grasp. Better yet, enter a twelve step program about this Kool-Aid obsession of yours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rzorsharps-gonna-cry/272571.md?page=9)