# S.D. Gov'r "inclined" to ban abortions, shoves head up ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066 "2006-02-25T13:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/361 "2006-03-02T01:45:03Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > **Raindog** , welcome back. Could you answer the questions in my last post, por favor? Dude, he won’t even address my definitions of “when life begins” or “when personhood begins”, despite his assurance that my definitions are “infinitely assailable.” I can only assume this is super-secret knowledge that only men are privy to. If you email him, he MIGHT let you in on it, but only if you promise not to tell us unworthy females. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/362 "2006-03-02T01:47:23Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Dude, he won’t even address my definitions of “when life begins” or “when personhood begins”, despite his assurance that my definitions are “infinitely assailable.” I can only assume this is super-secret knowledge that only men are privy to. If you email him, he MIGHT let you in on it, but only if you promise not to tell us unworthy females. 😉 I’m a man, and he won’t tell me either. He won’t even acknowledge that any of us are _asking_ him, which is why I keep calling him a coward. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/363 "2006-03-02T01:47:51Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > …I think the issue of welfare and the proper role of government are important issues. This issue is very complex and some very interesting arguments can be made on both sides of the political aisle… Are you ever going to make one? > [@the raindog](#): > > …But I do not think this is relevant to this discussion… It is relevant to this discussion! The proper role of government, South Dakota’s, was what this discussion started with! How can someone (the government of South Dakota) justify FORCING a rape or incest victim to carry a child to term? The OP did not want another abortion debate! [ > [@Superdude](#): > > South Dakota governor Mike Rounds says that he’s “inclined” to sign a bill that would outlaw most abortions, including in the cases of rape and incest. Any doctor who performs an abortion not necessary to save the mother’s life could face up to five years in prison… > …And factor in that Krista Heeren-Graber (executive director of the South Dakota Network Against Family Violence and Sexual Assault) opines that, if passed into law, this ban COULD possibly open the door for a rapist to be given visitation rights to the child… > …Now, I’m not going to bring up the abortion debate. Tempers flare on both sides… ]([http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7140130&postcount=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7140130&postcount=1)) > [@the raindog](#): > > …for if it is a human life the absence of adequate social services can never be a reason to essentially kill unborn children… Why is abortion more important to you than social services, when adequate pre-natal care would probably save more unborn children than ending abortion (in SD) would? What is more important to you, ending abortion or live children? CMC American female population = 147,867,067 (per 2000 census(roughly) 1% of 147,867,067 = 1,478,670.67 “1%, insignificant—so insignificant as to be zero as a practical matter” 1.47 million = 0 Must be the new math. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/364 "2006-03-02T01:50:10Z")
> [@Spongemom](#): > > Not to step on toes here, but I couldn’t help but notice that you just skirted around the whole question, without answering anything that was actually asked of your viewpoint. 😕 Maybe I misunderstood the question—I perceived she was asking what role/interest the state should have in this matter. As to my personal opinion, I think ultimately it is my wife’s decision. It is her life at stake. I think we would spend a lot of time talking about this, praying about it, and seek the best medical care we could find. Ultimately however, it is her life that is at great risk. I would pray for her and the health of our baby, keep my tongue in check so as to not have undue influence on her decision, and respect and support 100% what she decided. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/365 "2006-03-02T01:51:57Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > **Raindog** , welcome back. Could you answer the questions in my last post, por favor? Yep, they were very good questions. I will try to answer later tonight. . ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/366 "2006-03-02T01:54:30Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Dude, he won’t even address my definitions of “when life begins” or “when personhood begins”, despite his assurance that my definitions are “infinitely assailable.” I can only assume this is super-secret knowledge that only men are privy to. If you email him, he MIGHT let you in on it, but only if you promise not to tell us unworthy females. 😉 He has pretty much been asked by everyone so far and ignored those questions, and even quoted the entirety of other’s posts and leaving those questions out. I’m beginning to think there’s a dark secret here. It’s all veeery mysterious… Wait a minute, you’re female. I can’t let you in on my plans. Go back to your bikinis and purses, unworthy one! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/367 "2006-03-02T01:55:33Z")
I just have to note that the google ads just now were for “What type of mom are you?,” “eviction notice forms,” and “know your legal rights.” Oh, and **cmc** , thanks for attempting to bring the debate back to the original topic. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/368 "2006-03-02T01:56:04Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Yep, they were very good questions. > > I will try to answer later tonight. > . Bah. Now I feel all guilty about making a mocking comment, however slight the mock was. I apologise for that, and thanks in advance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spongemom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Spongemom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spongemom)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/369 "2006-03-02T02:07:11Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Can you provide credible evidence that a zygote IS a human being? A zygote consists of human cells, I would say that makes it a human. It isn’t a vegetable, and it isn’t a mineral, so it must be an animal. It isn’t feline, canine, equine, or any other 'ine; it was formed from two human cells, so it must be human in nature. But uh oh…my skin consists of human cells too. Given the proper technology and encouragement, one of my skin cells could be a whole 'nother person. So could most other cells in my human being body. I could have a person made out of my toenail if I were so inclined. Shame on me for sloughing skin and clipping my toenails. I’ve killed so many potential people! Yes, now I AM stepping on toes. Toes that could be potential people. Anyhow…as far as a zygote being a PERSON, my opinion is no. In the early stages of pregnancy, the fetus is nothing more than a cluster of cells programmed to multiply. A fetus during early term pregnancy has less of a brain than a chicken, or a goldfish. It has no cerebral cortex. That’s the part of the brain that makes us think, feel, remember, etc. Without a cerebral cortex, there is zero brain activity. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. The same amount of brain activity as a corpse. It’s not a person yet, it’s a bunch of braindead stemcells. To top that off, this is coming from a woman who has a child. I love my son more than anything in my life, but when I was just a few weeks pregnant, I was not attached to him at all, emotionally. When a baby, or “fetus”, is fully formed, wiggling and kicking, capable of living outside the womb, just taking its sweet time coming out, _then_ it’s a person, I think. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/370 "2006-03-02T02:12:39Z")
**Superdude said:** > [@](#): > > And yet you have done so all over this thread. This is true, we all have actually. You for the woman. (And I would submit in a way that may be expedient but ultimately is not good for anyone, including the woman) And me for both the woman _and the child._ (Despite the fact that this comment will infuriate some, that is not my intent. But pursuing a course of mental sleight of hand and chicanery, and cultural malnourishment is a diservice to all of society, not the least of which is **the woman** ) To quote the phrase which has now been reduced to nothing but a parody, _What about the children?_ > [@](#): > > It’s NOT a human being. Despite your sticking your fingers in your ears and saying it over and over, it doesn’t make it so. > > Can you provide credible evidence that a zygote IS a human being? It’s about time we lance this boil. I’ve been playing a 200 post count game of virtual pictionary doing everything in my power to have someone play the “zygote!” card. You’re not the first, but it’s about time we get to the point. I have to run for a few, but I’m sure this thread is heading out of the darkness into the light of _relevance._ We’re _far_ from done. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/371 "2006-03-02T02:23:41Z")
Good. Get to the point, already. Both science and the law say you’re wrong. I can’t wait to see your justification for why you feel you’re right. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/372 "2006-03-02T02:29:24Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > …It’s about time we lance this boil. > > I’ve been playing a 200 post count game of virtual pictionary doing everything in my power to have someone play the “zygote!” card. You’re not the first, but it’s about time we get to the point. > > I have to run for a few, but I’m sure this thread is heading out of the darkness into the light of _relevance._ We’re _far_ from done. Ohh, this should be fun. Dude your arguing with two well informed health care providers, surrender now! > [@Superdude](#): > > Oh, and **cmc** , thanks for attempting to bring the debate back to the original topic. I’ve been in both abortion pit threads from the start. The hijacking has left me feeling like this, “Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.” H. L. Mencken ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/373 "2006-03-02T02:32:13Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Good. Get to the point, already. Both science and the law say you’re wrong. I can’t wait to see your justification for why you feel you’re right. Taking a wild guess, it’s either “Because I say so !”, or “Because God says so !”. Assuming of course, that he actually _does_ try to answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/374 "2006-03-02T02:34:30Z")
I have to go to work tomorrow–no Dope at work. (boo hiss) I am also intrigued, but will have to be patient. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/375 "2006-03-02T02:36:30Z")
**crowmanyclouds** , is there any opposition in South Dakota to speak of? I’m just wondering if there’s anything that would cause the governor to squash this. I recognize that this move was made to force the SC’s hand; right to life groups obviously feel they have the support they need in the SCOTUS and they don’t want to wait any more. But if the governor refuses to sign it, at least it’ll slow it down. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/376 "2006-03-02T02:37:21Z")
I’m not holding my breath-he keeps telling us, “I will get to you”, or whatever, and never does. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/377 "2006-03-02T02:56:51Z")
It is now 9:56 PM. The last post in the thread was made at 9:37 PM, my time, by Guinastasia. Raindog has not commented in a substantiative manner on Mr. Blackmun’s judicial opinion, the excerpt of which considers historical perspective on the beginning of life and the right to an abortion. I would like to nail down this flagpole he keeps moving. And I would like, furthermore, to make sure people remember this behavior in future threads. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/378 "2006-03-02T03:44:54Z")
For those of you playing at home, here are some interesting facts about **the raindog** and this thread. To date he has posted 51 times (that’s right, **51** ) to this thread, with some of the most detailed and thorough responses----or at the very least verbose 😉 -----anyone has posted. By my count, that’s around 14% of all posts in a thread that is now 8 pages long and counting. It’s worth noting that **the raindog** doesn’t type, so these long posts come at some effort. And while the general population may have some profound differences with this thread, it can hardly be said that he has been less than sincere or has practiced any duplicity. Now **the raindog** has been around a couple years, and a couple years before that as a lurker, with a posting rate of around 1¼ posts per day. He hangs out mostly in GD, where he is not a stranger. (although not very often in The Pit, partly due to his sensitive constitution) He doesn’t care one bit what **E-Sabbath** remembers. Now he is of the opinion that anyone with pulse would notice that the SDMB, and particularly The Pit lack a certain…diversity. The practical application of this fact, relative to this thread, is that the member who has been **posted to** most _by name_ in the last several pages is **the raindog.** (now that Updike has mysteriously disappeared, a fact that has some wondering if he was 'wacked") Common sense would dictate that any given poster would notice these basic facts, and refrain from the silly allegation that he’s ducking anyone. The fact is, beating all of you into submission (the ones that need it of course 😉 ) takes time as the body counts are decidely not in his favor. Be patient, ok? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/379 "2006-03-02T03:51:57Z")
**the raindog** also _hates it_ when someone speaks about themselves in the 3rd person. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2006, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/380 "2006-03-02T04:03:21Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > What? I’m talking about self-defense _against_ a robber, not about anything that the robber is doing. Go back and read again. > “Death of the conceptus” is the inevitable result of an abortion, but that doesn’t mean it is not incidental to its (legally recognized) purpose. Just as homelessness is often the result of eviction, but is not the primary intent. Just as split ends are the result of hair bleaching, but not its main objective. > I sense that you understand this perfectly well, but are being purposefully obtuse. The probabilty of an consequence has nothing to do with whether that is a intended consequence. > How do you adopt out a month-old zygote? Do you know of any technology that would allow us to keep a first trimester fetus allive? I don’t. > Does **DianaG’s** right to life entitle her to your kidney? I’m guessing we’re not connecting. I find the whole tenant, eviction whole real estate thing having run it’s course and no longer useful to us. We’re kicking a dead fetus. (symbolically speaking of course) As to **DianaG** ’s kidney/organ analogy it didn’t appear to me to be cogently developed. Nonetheless, I answered it in great detail in 2 posts. (to the best of my ability and understanding anyway) At any rate, in my view it was on life support when I got it, and I tried to bring it back with mouth to mouth relevance resuscitation to no avail. It died right there in the thread. I did all I could. In all seriousness, I came to understand her post as best I could, and I understand her point. I just don’t think it is entirely relevant. And, I answered the best I could. So, unfortunately she cannot have my kidney. I hope she finds one promptly should she ever need one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066.md?page=20)