# S.D. Gov'r "inclined" to ban abortions, shoves head up ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066 "2006-02-25T13:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/61 "2006-02-25T20:56:24Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Wow, I wish I had thought of that. I wish I’d spent the last nearly ten years of my life trying to accomplish that. I wish I’d sat there and explained my case over and over again only to be told that I should come back when I’m 35, married and have two kids. You’re a god damn genius! Why didn’t I realize it was so easy? Where is my brain, having not tried to get a tubal or a hysterectomy. I haven’t found a single doctor who’s willing to do a surgical sterilization until I’m at least 35 and married or have two kids, and even then they’d be reluctant. Even if I could convince them to do the procedure, many forms of surgical sterilization (like tubal ligation) have a higher failure rate than proper use of the Pill. > > I wish assholes like you found out the facts and didn’t make assumptions about my medical history before they called me a fucking cunt. Bring it on, Beeeyatch. I know all about tubals - my wife, my mother, and several close friends have them. A properly-performed cauterization tubal has a less than 1/10th of 1% chance of failure, which I believe is _significantly_ lower than the pill’s failure rate. I will concede that I was unaware of your age, which of course factors heavily in a doctor’s decision not to sterilize you. For that, I feel sorry, because I realize it is what you truly want. Regardless, the level of venom that you hurl in the direction of the unborn (I refrain from using any other term, because unborn is the most neutral term out there that I can think of, and would apply to wanted or unwanted pregnancies) is unprecendented in my experience. You don’t merely not desire a pregnancy, it _appears_ you actually loathe the concept and everything to do with it but the fucking part. Thus, my suggestion that you remove everything that would allow anything but the fucking. I’m sorry the doctors won’t do it - and I’m sorry for any unexpected “consequences” of your fucking that will have to bear the brunt of your ire. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/62 "2006-02-25T21:08:50Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Wow, I wish I had thought of that. I wish I’d spent the last nearly ten years of my life trying to accomplish that. I wish I’d sat there and explained my case over and over again only to be told that I should come back when I’m 35, married and have two kids. You’re a god damn genius! Why didn’t I realize it was so easy? Where is my brain, having not tried to get a tubal or a hysterectomy. I haven’t found a single doctor who’s willing to do a surgical sterilization until I’m at least 35 and married or have two kids, and even then they’d be reluctant. Is that true? Are doctors really that adamant about not doing tubal ligation or hysterectomy on women under 35 and/or without children? You can have a whole goddamned sex change, but you can’t just decide that you never want to be pregnant? That is just fucked up. It should be an on-demand procedure, as long as the doctor concludes that it carries no significant immediate health risks for the person undergoing the surgery. I guess they’d prefer you to keep taking the pill. That way, the pharmaceutical companies continue to make a profit, and you can continue to live with the risks of long-term contraceptive pill use. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/63 "2006-02-25T21:12:31Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > At any rate, if the baby/fetus is a human,with all the rights of any other human, than what is the significance between a woman who aborts a 6 month old fetus from the womb, and the woman who smothers a 6 month old infant in the crib? Abortions at six months are rare. They’re only done when the woman’s life/health is at stake. Nice try. A two month old fetus should NOT have more rights than I do. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/64 "2006-02-25T21:13:09Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > You don’t merely not desire a pregnancy, it _appears_ you actually loathe the concept and everything to do with it but the fucking part. So fucking what? That’s her right. Since when are women obliged to have some desire for pregnancy to go along with a desire for sex? I wasn’t aware of this rule. ---
**Author:** ![Spongemom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Spongemom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spongemom)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/65 "2006-02-25T21:23:31Z")
_steps up meekly_ The way I see it: Once the anti-abortion crowd can figure out a way to rid the world of hunger, disease, and everything else that kills already-born children every day, and when they find families for the countless already-born children who call an orphanage their home, _then_ they can start looking out for the zygotes. Save the children my ass. _prepares for backlash_ ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/66 "2006-02-25T21:26:05Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > _What I’m saying_ is that the right of _privacy_ should be respected. But the most basic, fundamental right is the right to _live._ > > And so if the right of privacy collides with the right of life, the right of life must prevail in a civilized society. _The right of life is superior._ No, it isn’t. I’m sorry, but human beings don’t treat life as if it were “precious” or “worth protecting” or “a god given right” except when it comes to passing laws against a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy. We kill and maim and destroy life with abandon. Abortion laws aren’t about religious belief or sanctity of life. If they were, it’d be simple. You cannot make or enforce a law based on religious belief. Period. It’s about control. It always was, it always will be. A woman’s right to control her own reproduction, and those who would take it away. > [@](#): > > You may not kill me because my presence is an inconvenience to you. You may not kill me if my presence is a mistake—even due to rape. You may not kill me because “you’re not ready.” You may not kill me because you’ve changed your mind. You may not kill me because his condom broke, or the spermacide failed. You’re a fully grown functioning person. Physically, anyway. While I have no right to kill you, you in turn have no right to force me to cause my body to go through severe hormonal and physical changes, interrupt my life, and change my plans just because of a belief that you subscribe to and I do not. IOW; you have no control over me. You have control over you. You don’t want an abortion? Excellent. Don’t get one. But you have no right to stop anyone else from doing so. I find it offensive and disgusting that an independent woman ( **catsix** in this case) who is aware of her own feelings and has made her decision, knows she will not change her mind, is not able to obtain the medical care she requires to allow her the peace of mind she needs. I had to get 5 separate consults supporting my decision to get a hysterectomy, and I live in California and have two children! Plus I had a serious medical condition which necessitated that hysterectomy. If that doesn’t tell you it’s about control I don’t know what will. **catsix** is wrong, **dead wrong.** [/QUOTE] Only in _your opinion_. And it isn’t your opinion that matters. I realize you don’t want to accept it, but it’s true. Your opinion has no bearing on the right to change any life but your own. This will be my only post to this thread. I don’t expect to change _anyone’s_ mind; we’ve discussed it dozens of times, we’ll discuss it dozens more. But the rhetoric thrown around in this thread is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/67 "2006-02-25T21:27:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Abortions at six months are rare. They’re only done when the woman’s life/health is at stake. > > Nice try. > > A two month old fetus should NOT have more rights than I do. **If the baby/fetus is [legally] a human,** it doesn’t really matter whether it’s 6 months or some other arbitrary number to illustrate the point. There is no qualitative difference between: > [@](#): > > \*\*At any rate, if the baby/fetus is a human,\*\*with all the rights of any other human, than what is the significance between a woman who aborts a **6** month old fetus from the womb, and the woman who smothers a **6** month old infant in the crib? and; > [@](#): > > \*\*At any rate, if the baby/fetus is a human,\*\*with all the rights of any other human, than what is the significance between a woman who aborts a **3** month old fetus from the womb, and the woman who smothers a **3** month old infant in the crib? bolding mine. A fetus doesn’t, and shouldn’t, have more rights than you. \* But neither should either of you be allowed to kill the other.\* ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/68 "2006-02-25T21:28:23Z")
> [@Spongemom](#): > > _steps up meekly_ > > The way I see it: Once the anti-abortion crowd can figure out a way to rid the world of hunger, disease, and everything else that kills already-born children every day, and when they find families for the countless already-born children who call an orphanage their home, _then_ they can start looking out for the zygotes. Save the children my ass. > > _prepares for backlash_ I’m with Spongemom. I’m passionately pro-choice, but I find it interesting that the same people who would deny a woman’s right to abortion are the same ones who are willing to cut social and education programs to care for the babies they’ve “saved”. I guess it’s a matter of quantity over quality. Robin ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/69 "2006-02-25T21:31:00Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I’m with Spongemom. I’m passionately pro-choice, but I find it interesting that the same people who would deny a woman’s right to abortion are the same ones who are willing to cut social and education programs to care for the babies they’ve “saved”. I guess it’s a matter of quantity over quality. > > Robin But didn’t you know? Once they’re born, they have to learn personal responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/70 "2006-02-25T21:34:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > But didn’t you know? Once they’re born, they have to learn personal responsibility. Oh, silly me. :rolleyes: Robin ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/71 "2006-02-25T21:36:48Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > **If the baby/fetus is [legally] a human,** it doesn’t really matter whether it’s 6 months or some other arbitrary number to illustrate the point. > > There is no qualitative difference between: > and; > > bolding mine. > > A fetus doesn’t, and shouldn’t, have more rights than you. > \* > But neither should either of you be allowed to kill the other.\* A fetus != baby Either way, you do NOT have the right to turn MY body into a host site for someone else. You do NOT have the right-no one does-to endanger my health and well-being, for someone else. Got that? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/72 "2006-02-25T21:38:12Z")
And, yes, I know **mhendo** ’s reply was sarcasm. The rolleyes was intended for our lovely government. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/73 "2006-02-25T21:40:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Are you OK with abortion at any time during pregnancy? Even at 8 or 9 months? As far as I know, there is no abortion at 8 or 9 months-at that point, the doctor would just induce labor or perform an early c-section. But you knew that-right? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/74 "2006-02-25T21:43:10Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > If you want me to call it something other than slavery, suggesting a term would be good. > > Otherwise I see forcing someone to carry out the will of another as … slavery. Involuntary servitude? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/75 "2006-02-25T21:45:23Z")
**the raindog** , you keep bringing up the right to privacy as though it’s what I’m addressing. It’s not. It’s what Roe is based on, so if you want to argue the validity of Roe, it’s a useful concept. I’m not arguing the validity of Roe at this particular moment, though. What I’m saying is that when you grant a fetus the right to exploit my body against my will, you grant it greater rights than mine. Do I have the right to take one of your kidneys if I need it? You’ve got two, you’ll live. Sure, it would be inconvenient. Traumatic, even. But what right do you have to refuse it to me, if without it I will die? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/76 "2006-02-25T21:51:38Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > No, it isn’t. I’m sorry, but human beings don’t treat life as if it were “precious” or “worth protecting” or “a god given right” except when it comes to passing laws against a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy. We kill and maim and destroy life with abandon. Abortion laws aren’t about religious belief or sanctity of life. If they were, it’d be simple. You cannot make or enforce a law based on religious belief. Period. It’s about control. It always was, it always will be. A woman’s right to control her own reproduction, and those who would take it away. Nonsense. The central question is still the same: **When does Life begin?** I have little to do with either camp—I am not part of the right to life movement , and do not speak in rhetoric. Further, the notion that abortion is exclusively a religious issue is misguided at best, disengenuous at worst. And you may do your best to throw out code words like"control", “slavery”, “oppression” but they don’t hold up to scrutiny. They’re highly perishable. > [@](#): > > You’re a fully grown functioning person. Physically, anyway. While I have no right to kill you, you in turn have no right to force me to cause my body to go through severe hormonal and physical changes, interrupt my life, and change my plans just because of a belief that you subscribe to and I do not. IOW; you have no control over me. You have control over you. You don’t want an abortion? Excellent. Don’t get one. But you have no right to stop anyone else from doing so. The question of viability is silly on it’s face. If everyone had to go through a ‘viability’ test to determine their right to be alive, we’d eliminate ¼ of the population. We’d be turning nursing homes into Motel 6’s. The question remains the same: **When does Life begin?** If that’s a _child,_ I’ll gladly suffer the charge of “sexual oppressor”, “control freak” or “slave master” exposing the tradegy that so many people are willing to kill children because they may ‘interrupt their lives’ or ‘change their plans.’ > [@](#): > > This will be my only post to this thread. I don’t expect to change _anyone’s_ mind; we’ve discussed it dozens of times, we’ll discuss it dozens more. But the rhetoric thrown around in this thread is absurd. I couldn’t agree more. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/77 "2006-02-25T21:56:11Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > If that’s a _child,_ I’ll gladly suffer the charge of “sexual oppressor”, “control freak” or “slave master” exposing the tradegy that so many people are willing to kill children because they may ‘interrupt their lives’ or ‘change their plans.’ > . YOU would. I wouldn’t. You don’t speak for me. And it’s more than just “interupt my life.” I am on meds and if I were to get pregnant, I couldn’t take those medications and deliver safely. I’d have to quit cold turkey, which could have devastating consequences for me. Add in the chance of post-partum depression, and there’s a good chance it would destroy me. If I ever plan on getting pregnant, I’d have to do that-in advance, ease off the meds I’m on, and find one that’s safe to take while pregnant. But I’d still be risking pre-eclampsia, gestational diabetes, post-partum depression, etc. If life begins at conception, tell me, do you celebrate your birthday, or your conception day? Do you age yourself + 9 months just to be on the safe side? Put yourself in slavery, but don’t presume to do the same thing to me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/78 "2006-02-25T21:57:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > As far as I know, there is no abortion at 8 or 9 months-at that point, the doctor would just induce labor or perform an early c-section. Not if \*\*catsix \*\*were making the rules. Did you read her reply? People like her are just as blindly dogmatic as the anti-abortion crowd. That was the point of my asing her that question. And I highly doubt any doctor would perfrom an “early c-section” just because a woman no longer wanted to be pregnant even if it was legal to do so. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/79 "2006-02-25T21:59:49Z")
FYI - catsix and I held an off-board discussion…we have each retracted our personal statements about each other. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/80 "2006-02-25T21:59:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Not if \*\*catsix \*\*were making the rules. Did you read her reply? > > People like her are just as blindly dogmatic as the anti-abortion crowd. That was the point of my asing her that question. And I highly doubt any doctor would perfrom an “early c-section” just because a woman no longer wanted to be pregnant even if it was legal to do so. Well, in that case, I do disagree with her. Any woman who’d be so stupid as to wait 8 months in to get an abortion doesn’t deserve that right. But I do support first trimester abortion rights. Absolutely. I may not always think the person getting one is right, or I may not have one myself (I honestly do not know what I would do), but I want that right to be available. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066.md?page=5)