# S.D. Gov'r "inclined" to ban abortions, shoves head up ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066 "2006-02-25T13:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/81 "2006-02-25T22:03:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > A fetus != baby > > Either way, you do NOT have the right to turn MY body into a host site for someone else. You do NOT have the right-no one does-to endanger my health and well-being, for someone else. > > Got that? Actually, no. But you probably surmised that. But YOU turned your body into a host when you invited sperm into it. (whether you took precautions against that risk or not) Further the pregnancy that resulted from YOUR CHOICES endangers your physical health in a very small percentage of the time. In those instances some difficult choices need to be made. The fact remains that among the **more than 50 million babies** who are taken from their mothers wombs every year and discarded like trash, an insignificant amount of them are due to health issues of the mother, rape or incest. More often than not, it’s no more complicated then the baby will ‘change my plans.’ ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/82 "2006-02-25T22:05:41Z")
> [@](#): > > **DirkGntly** said: > FYI - catsix and I held an off-board discussion…we have each retracted our personal statements about each other. This is true. However, I am still thinking that due to how I feel about this issue and how it affects me personally it would be best if I do not participate further in discussion of it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/83 "2006-02-25T22:17:16Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Actually, no. > > But you probably surmised that. > > But YOU turned your body into a host when you invited sperm into it. (whether you took precautions against that risk or not) > > Further the pregnancy that resulted from YOUR CHOICES endangers your physical health in a very small percentage of the time. In those instances some difficult choices need to be made. > > The fact remains that among the **more than 50 million babies** who are taken from their mothers wombs every year and discarded like trash, an insignificant amount of them are due to health issues of the mother, rape or incest. > > More often than not, it’s no more complicated then the baby will ‘change my plans.’ And finally we arrive back at the “you play you pay” theory of reproductive rights. And so I’ll ask you again. I need a kidney. It’s not my fault. Hell, let’s take it a step further and assume it’s your fault. If the only way I can live is to take your kidney, does that give me the right? ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/84 "2006-02-25T22:18:29Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > I think the nature of the removal of an unwanted object from my body is irrelevant to the fact that I should have the absolute right to remove that object from my body, no matter what that object is. It’s not an object. It’s not a gall stone, kidney stone, or tumor. It’s a human life. That you support chopping it up to remove it at any time is vile. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/85 "2006-02-25T22:24:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But I do support first trimester abortion rights. Absolutely Are you a Catholic? Because your position puts you in grave risk of automatic excommunication. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/86 "2006-02-25T22:27:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > If life begins at conception, tell me, do you celebrate your birthday, or your conception day? Do you age yourself + 9 months just to be on the safe side? I absolutley disagree with what **the raindog** is arguing, but this is a specious argument. The fact that we’ve developed various religious and secular traditions around the date of birth doesn’t mean anything with regards to the beginning of life. It’s like arguing that nobody in your family is a monkey during an evolution debate. Completley useless to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/87 "2006-02-25T22:28:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > But I do support first trimester abortion rights. Absolutely. I may not always think the person getting one is right, or I may not have one myself (I honestly do not know what I would do), but I want that right to be available. That’s pretty much my position. Although the whole trimester thing is very artificial. I tend to look at it in terms of viability. My suggestion would be that abortion should be OK up to the point of viability minus some fudge factor. IOW, if a fetus is viable at 6 months, then lets allow abortions up until 5 months. I think it would be wise to err on the safe side. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/88 "2006-02-25T22:28:28Z")
Must run. My teenage daughter is harrassing me for ‘her turn’ on the computer. I’ll try to come out and play later. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/89 "2006-02-25T22:28:41Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Are you a Catholic? Because your position puts you in grave risk of automatic excommunication. Just a thought. :rolleyes: Is there some reason that you think **Guinastasia** might be Catholic or are you just throwing that out there? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/90 "2006-02-25T22:30:59Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Are you a Catholic? Because your position puts you in grave risk of automatic excommunication. Just a thought. I was raised as one, but since I haven’t gone to Mass forever, and I pretty much deny everything the church stands for, I think I’ve already been excommunicated, even without being pro-choice. Either way, the church can kiss my ass. What’s your point? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/91 "2006-02-25T22:42:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > That’s pretty much my position. Although the whole trimester thing is very artificial. I tend to look at it in terms of viability. My suggestion would be that abortion should be OK up to the point of viability minus some fudge factor. IOW, if a fetus is viable at 6 months, then lets allow abortions up until 5 months. I think it would be wise to err on the safe side. This is pretty much my position, too. I don’t believe in the sanctity of life. I do not believe that a human being, simply by existing, has the right to exist. I believe that that right must be earned, or on the other hand that killing a human being (or the potential to become a human being) must have a net positive consequence. Essentially, my views are that a human foetus, if it could be removed and grown in an artificial womb, should always be brought to term (either in the womb or at the mother’s choice, the artificial one ( circumstances permitting )). Seeing as how we can’t do that, it’s a comprimise between the mother and the foetus/potential human, and i’m happy to have the line drawn at the point of viability (minus **John Mace** ’s fudge factor) Btw, John Mace, I seem to agree with you a lot. What’s your political viewpoint? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/92 "2006-02-25T22:44:48Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Nonsense. The central question is still the same: > > **When does Life begin?** Shit. I swore I wouldn’t get sucked in. :smack: Alright. Since you are disavowing rhetoric, and seem to be serious in your question, I’ll answer you. As it applies to mammals, all mammals, humans included: **Life begins when it is self sustaining.**. There is no life, no viability, until it is outside the womb. Taking the large percentage of fertilized eggs that don’t adhere to the uterine wall, the number of spontaneous miscarriages, the trauma of birth (I’ve helped deliver three blue babies that had beating hearts when the woman went into labor), it is impossible to call any animal “alive” until they are not dependent on their mother’s body to continue living. I realize you’ll probably reject that response, but as a clinician, that’s the only one I can give you. If a baby is able to survive outside the mother at 7 months or even 6 months, then it’s alive. Prior to that, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/93 "2006-02-25T22:48:41Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I was raised as one, but since I haven’t gone to Mass forever, and I pretty much deny everything the church stands for, I think I’ve already been excommunicated, even without being pro-choice. > > Either way, the church can kiss my ass. I’m sorry you feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/94 "2006-02-25T22:49:11Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > **Life begins when it is self sustaining.**. There is no life, no viability, until it is outside the womb. Taking the large percentage of fertilized eggs that don’t adhere to the uterine wall, the number of spontaneous miscarriages, the trauma of birth (I’ve helped deliver three blue babies that had beating hearts when the woman went into labor), it is impossible to call any animal “alive” until they are not dependent on their mother’s body to continue living. This is also my position. I absolutely oppose the taking of a human life for any reason. I think people have a right to exist and I can’t imagine how we could have any other rights at all if we didn’t start off with that one. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/95 "2006-02-25T22:51:07Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > If a baby is able to survive outside the mother at 7 months or even 6 months, then it’s alive. Prior to that, all bets are off. Then what’s your opinion of **catsix’s** position that abortion should be available at any time, including the 8th and 9th months? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/96 "2006-02-25T22:57:39Z")
I stated in a previous GD thread that I don’t believe third trimester abortions should be performed, and if the mother’s health or life was threatened. I also think that at that point a c-section should be performed and every attempt to save the child’s life made. If circumstances have changed to the point that you no longer want a child after being pregnant for 8 months, then you should make contact with an adoption agency to find a good home for the child you’re carrying. ---
**Author:** ![JDeMobray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@JDeMobray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDeMobray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/97 "2006-02-25T22:58:31Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Then what’s your opinion of **catsix’s** position that abortion should be available at any time, including the 8th and 9th months? I’ll answer for myself that I think **catsix’s** position is repellent. But as a Democrat I’m unfortunately very used to being lumped in with a bunch of fanatics that don’t come anywhere within shouting distance of a rational position on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/98 "2006-02-25T22:58:53Z")
CRAP!!! That should be _unless_ the mother’s health or life was threatened. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/99 "2006-02-25T23:04:58Z")
> [@the raindog](#): > > Nonsense. The central question is still the same: > > **When does Life begin?** No, life isn’t the determining factor. Unfertalized eggs are alive. Every cell in your body is alive. The question is when does a fetus become enough of a human that we, as a society, cannot accept killing it. There is no scientific reason to asign that status to a fertized ovum. There may be a reiligious reason, but we don’t make our laws based on religious reasons. You need to make some argument based on the “humanness” of the fetus. Whether that is viability, or the ability to feel pain, or the registering of brain waves, that is a point of debate for legal purposes. But just claiming that a ferilized ovum is a “human being” doesn’t make it so. A fertilized ovum is no more human than is one of my skin cells. **Relevant Threshold** : Im vaguely libertarian (small “l”), but not a member of the “L” party. But my position on abortion is probably more a function of my not having any religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066/100 "2006-02-25T23:06:18Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > I’m sorry you feel that way. I suspect, mon ami, that she would say the same about you. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-d-govr-inclined-to-ban-abortions-shoves-head-up-ass/346066.md?page=6)