# S.H.I.E.L.D. vs. S.H.I.E.L.D.: Agent May vs. Agent Romanoff **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003 "2013-11-03T21:35:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/1 "2013-11-03T21:35:35Z")
Agent May is presented as the real badass among the characters on the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. television show. In fact, she’s kinda legendary- Her codename “The Cavalry” is well known by reputation to people who have never seen her (Fitz and Simmons knew of The Cavalry but were surprised to learn it was May). The reason I can’t really get enthused about her badassedness is that she really comes off as lower tier compared to other S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents we’ve seen. Of course, we’re comparing different media. The television show does not have the fight choreography and special effects that the movies have. But, even though we’re looking at different media, the television show is presented as being part of the “Marvel Cinematic Universe” (abbreviated as “MCU” for the rest of this OP). Therefore, I think it’s fair to expect the pieces to work as part of the same larger puzzle. Same Universe: same rules, same standards, same expectations. Comparing MCU Agent May to MCU Agent Romanoff, I don’t see them anywhere _near_ being on the same tier. We see Agent May take down a single gunman in the pilot episode, a few gunmen in the jungle in Peru, and she grabs that Peruvian Military Police guy with her ankles and flips him over a railing. In the “Eye Spy” episode, she is a split second away from getting her ass kicked _because her opponent turned off the lights!!!_ Seriously? Sure, her opponent had an advantage being able to see in the dark, but _seriously_? You’re a S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent and you’re screwed _because the lights went out_? Compare to Agent Romanoff’s takedown of _every single guard at Hammer Industries_ in _Iron Man 2_. She kicked the asses of those Russian gangsters _while tied to a chair_. She kicked _Hawkeye_’s ass. And she more than held her own while fighting an invading army from outer space. Considering the abilities of top tier MCU S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents, I’d think that _if_ Fitzsimmons had heard of The Cavalry, their reaction should have been “Oh, yeah, wasn’t that some mid-level agent that hasn’t been heard from in a while, retired maybe?” What do you think? The limitations on fight choreography and special effects prevent them from showing just how badass she is, but your suspension of disbelief allows you to accept that she is just as badass as Romanoff (or even more badass)? Or She’s nowhere near Romanoff’s level? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/2 "2013-11-03T22:00:41Z")
Just to fanwank, it’s possible that May is the best there ever was at stealthing around and playing sniper, but keeps getting tapped for up-close fighting where (a) the Black Widow would be better but (b) the Cavalry can still whup multiple gunmen like they’re standing still. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/3 "2013-11-03T22:07:01Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Compare to Agent Romanoff’s takedown of _every single guard at Hammer Industries_ in _Iron Man 2_. To be fair, Happy (with some difficulty) did take one of them down himself. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/4 "2013-11-03T22:16:54Z")
In the pilot - Agent Ward was directly compared to Romanoff - IIRC, the words were ‘best to come from the academy since’ of course, that could simply mean that May was not in contention - since she’s obviously a more seasoned agent. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/5 "2013-11-03T22:17:04Z")
Well, the Black Widow is the one they had on the team with Captain America, so she’s probably very high level. If May is only a little younger than her actress, the Cavalry is presumably over 40, maybe pushing 50. She may have been a lot scarier when she was younger. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/6 "2013-11-03T22:21:23Z")
> [@simster](#): > > In the pilot - Agent Ward was directly compared to Romanoff - IIRC, the words were ‘best to come from the academy since’ They were going over his scores by category. His grade for Espionage was the highest since Romanoff. It wasn’t his over all score that was the best since Romanoff- just that one category. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/7 "2013-11-03T22:21:52Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > To be fair, Happy (with some difficulty) did take one of them down himself. And the Black Widow used a number of weapons. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/8 "2013-11-03T23:38:11Z")
Dean Ambrose could take either of them. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/9 "2013-11-03T23:47:05Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > They were going over his scores by category. His grade for Espionage was the highest since Romanoff. It wasn’t his over all score that was the best since Romanoff- just that one category. thanks for the clarification - ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/10 "2013-11-04T01:01:57Z")
Romanoff plays with the supers. May plays with the normals. That’s the answer right there. Romanoff is in a category so elite that even other elite agents can’t get into it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/11 "2013-11-04T01:08:19Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > They were going over his scores by category. His grade for Espionage was the highest since Romanoff. It wasn’t his over all score that was the best since Romanoff- just that one category. Yeah, that Poop he got in People Skills really dragged down his overall score. ---
**Author:** ![stegon66](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee59a6/32.png) [@stegon66](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stegon66)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/12 "2013-11-04T22:49:51Z")
Can’t they just make sweet love? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/13 "2013-11-07T18:36:08Z")
> [@stegon66](#): > > Can’t they just make sweet love? I’ll settle for a cat-fight. (Old ECW fans probably can’t read that word without Joey Styles shrilly shouting, “Catfight! Catfight! Catfight!” going through their heads. I know that’s what I’ll always hear in my head for the rest of eternity when I read that word.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/14 "2013-11-07T21:47:02Z")
But does Black Widow have a pilot’s license? ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/15 "2013-11-07T22:32:36Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > But does Black Widow have a pilot’s license? Yes - we see her flying various vehicles in _The Avengers_. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/16 "2013-11-07T23:03:06Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Romanoff plays with the supers. May plays with the normals. That’s the answer right there. > > Romanoff is in a category so elite that even other elite agents can’t get into it. Except that May had retired to a desk job, which Coulson had to lure her away from. She wasn’t a field agent when the battle of New York happened, thus she would not have been called for such an assignment. Romanov seems oriented towards spy work, though she can obviously fight like a highly-trained agent. May, from what little they’ve said, and from her nickname, 'Cavalry", sounds like who they call in when the proverbial shit has hit the fan, and someone needs rescued. May is older. No disrespect to folks 40+ (I’m one), but we are past our physical prime at that point. Something else to take into account. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/17 "2013-11-08T04:09:19Z")
In the most recent episode, May kicked a barn door off its hinges while Ward and Coulson were like…“fuck, how do we get in?”. That implies that maybe May is more powerful than she looks. Probably not super-soldier level enhanced, but well beyond normal humans. I think she’d kick Ward’s ass without breaking a sweat, and Ward’s a badass in his own right. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/18 "2013-11-08T14:54:35Z")
I haven’t actually seen the TV show, but there’s a reason we never see Captain America or Iron Man in it, too. Everything we see in the show is at a level too low to get the big guns involved. May can be at the top of that lower level, while still being below that upper level. In other words, if something is too big for Ward and Coulson to handle, you bring in May. If it’s too big for her to handle, too, then you bring in Romanov and Rogers. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/19 "2013-11-08T16:16:15Z")
I also imagine that the legend of The Cavalry has been repeated and exaggerated over the years. Not that May isn’t still capable of remarkable ass kicking, but we all know how a story spreads in the retelling. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003/20 "2013-11-09T01:17:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > In the most recent episode, May kicked a barn door off its hinges while Ward and Coulson were like…“fuck, how do we get in?”. That implies that maybe May is more powerful than she looks. Probably not super-soldier level enhanced, but well beyond normal humans. I think she’d kick Ward’s ass without breaking a sweat, and Ward’s a badass in his own right. I think you are reaching. May just took the direct route while the others were thinking like…oh I don’t know…spies? Personally, I’m of the opinion she’s not only not beyond normal humans, but could be taken by Ward in a fair fight. (I think she’d win the unfair fight though. She reminds me of the adage “Age and treachery will always defeat youth and skill.”) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-h-i-e-l-d-vs-s-h-i-e-l-d-agent-may-vs-agent-romanoff/673003.md?page=2)