# S-M-I-T-H pronounced BROWN **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 15, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040 "2004-12-15T22:02:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/121 "2004-12-20T15:06:02Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Here’s an Anglicism I’ve wondered about: > > Is Marquis of Queensbury really pronounced “Mar-kwis of Kweens-bree”? I’ll let an actual Englishperson answer the question, but I’d like to note that in Britain, they spell it as “Marquess.” That might give you a hint about the pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/122 "2004-12-20T16:06:39Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > That makes me think — I live in Hampshire, pronounced “Hamp-shuh” (or “Hamp-sherr” if you’re a country bumpkin). Is New Hampshire pronounced more as it’s spelt? Not really. The last syllable of both Hampshire and Worcestershire are pronounced very like sheer. Shire is only prounced correctly when speaking of Robin Hood. How are words that end in “mouth” pronounced in the UK? In the cases of places like Portsmouth any Plymouth mouth becomes mith. I wondered because I just read The Breaker by Minette Walters and there were some 'mouth places mentioned in the book. (and other strange things like twee for cutesy and guys talking about _their_ tits!) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/123 "2004-12-20T16:15:39Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > How are words that end in “mouth” pronounced in the UK? In the cases of places like Portsmouth any Plymouth mouth becomes mith. I wondered because I just read The Breaker by Minette Walters and there were some 'mouth places mentioned in the book. (and other strange things like twee for cutesy and guys talking about _their_ tits!) With a schwa, for the most part. “PORTS-muhth”, “PLIM-uhth”. There may be a couple of exception to this, but I can’t think of any offhand. Widemouth Bay is pronounced “Wid-muhth”. Oh, and how do you think you pronounce “Mousehole”, a village in Cornwall? “Mowzle”, to rhyme with “tousle”. ---
**Author:** ![davmilasav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@davmilasav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davmilasav)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/124 "2004-12-20T16:45:56Z")
I grew up in a small town in Western PA. The _crick_😉 that ran through town was the Connoquenessing, pronounced KAHN-uh-kuh-NESS-ing. If you travel west on 288 from my hometown you come to a town called Zelienople. That’s Zill-yuh-nople, not ZEE-lee-nople. Usually locals call it Zilly. Outsiders tend to call it Zeelee. Now I live SE of Houston and every day on my way to work in Galveston I pass a road that’s spelled Vauthier. That’s “vo-SHAY” to you. (I thought it was Vo-tee-ay.) ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/125 "2004-12-20T19:09:42Z")
> [@davmilasav](#): > > The _crick_😉 that ran through town was the Connoquenessing, pronounced KAHN-uh-kuh-NESS-ing. Reminds me of New England’s funny place names such as Quonochontaug (QUAHN-uh-kuh-tawg) and Wequetequock (WICK-it-ee-quawck). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/126 "2004-12-20T20:29:08Z")
Every Californai school kid over 4th grade can tell you about Father Junipero Serra, who founded the missions up the coast (San Diego, Los Angeles, [San Buena]Ventura, Santa Barbara, etc). So there’s a street in Long Beach name Junipero. I don’t think there’s enough local history though to have decided definitively if it’s “HuNEEpero” or some bastardized thing like “June i pear o”. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/127 "2004-12-20T21:30:01Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > Every Californai school kid over 4th grade can tell you about Father Junipero Serra, who founded the missions up the coast (San Diego, Los Angeles, [San Buena]Ventura, Santa Barbara, etc). So there’s a street in Long Beach name Junipero. > > I don’t think there’s enough local history though to have decided definitively if it’s “HuNEEpero” or some bastardized thing like “June i pear o”. My kids were both taught to pronounce it “yoo-NIP-per-oh”, which is pretty close to the Spanish pronunciation. > [@Colophon](#): > > As for Torquay, that’s not really a quirk, as “quay” is always spelt as “key”. Where? Quay is a [perfectly acceptable](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=quay) English word, pronounced either KEY or KAY. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/128 "2004-12-20T21:33:35Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > In Sacramento there is a street called “Don Julio”. People are equally like to say “Julio” as “Hulio”. But “Julio” is **always** pronounced HOO-lee-oh. How else have you heard it said? ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/129 "2004-12-21T06:15:54Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > A friend, also from San Diego, got me thoroughly lost when he mangled the pronunciation of a Spanish name. I speak some Spanish, so I didn’t recognize the name on a road sign since my reading of it and his were completely different. Apparently, San Diegans have problems with names. They’re not the only ones. There’s a town south of Pittsburgh which is universally misprounced. Buena Vista, PA, is known to one and all who reside there as “Byoona Vista.” The very idea makes me cringe. There’s also a suburb North Versailles pronounced Ver-sales. Somehow, they do manage Duquesne properly, though. > [@jayjay](#): > > Yep. I live in LANK-a-stir, PA. I was told repeatedly by locals that the city in PA is properly pronounced LANK-aster. Heavy, heavy, heavy accent on the first syllable, second barely muttered. **davmilasav** , I lived in Zelienople! It’s a sweet little town, I still miss it. In reading this thread, all I can think is “Bouquet residence, lady of the house speaking!” ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/130 "2004-12-21T10:01:50Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > We have a Miami, Oklahoma. But of course we can’t call it My-AM-ee, we call it My-Am-uh :smack: > [@acsenray](#): > > Miamuh is also the traditional pronunciation in the Dayton, Ohio, area (the “Great Miami Valley”). Don Wayne, who was the anchorman for Channel 7 for many years said it that way every day. But you don’t hear it much anymore, since he retired in the early 1980s. These days I would only expect a real old timer out in the country to say Miamuh. > [@acsenray](#): > > My understanding is that the name “Miami” has nothing to do with the Seminoles or anything to do with Florida at all. They named the city after the Miamis of Ohio. I went to school in Miami, Oklahoma, for two years. For the first couple of months, I insisted on pronouncing it “My-AM-ee”, but after getting corrected constantly, I eventually gave in and said “My-AM-uh” like everyone else. For the longest time, I thought it was a mispronunciation like “CAY-roh” or “BER-lin”, but someone who was native to the area told me that it was spelled like the city in Florida only by coincidence and that the two names were completely unrelated. But then I saw **acsenray** ’s post mentioning Seminoles and I remembered that a lot of Seminoles from Florida were relocated to Oklahoma, so maybe there _is_ a connection. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/131 "2004-12-21T10:19:03Z")
1. Isn’t eliminating or sliding over intervening letters/syllables _elision_? 2. In Austin, Tex., a street called San Jacinto is pronounced just the way it reads in English (hard J), Guadalupe St. is Gwadaloop, and Manchaca is Man-schack. Even the third/fourth/fifth generation Mexicans have decided it’s just easier to go with the whitebread pronunications: I saw an ad for “Sa-lay-zer’s Autobody” on television. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/132 "2004-12-21T11:30:58Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > By the way, the number of people mentioning Worcestershire sauce on this thread leads me to wonder - is it the hot new condiment in the States, or something? It seems to be mighty famous! > > (Mmmm… macaroni cheese with Lea & Perrins…) It’s the stuff you put on steak and mix in with burger meat. Some people use A-1, but they’re idiots. I don’t know about mac & cheese though, that’s weird. There’s also the imposter stuff made by French’s, but I had to reeducate **available light** about that when she bought some one fateful day. ---
**Author:** ![hybrid\_dogfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@hybrid\_dogfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hybrid_dogfish)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/133 "2004-12-21T11:40:44Z")
Hmm, I wonder who will come up with the correct pronunciation of these two towns near me: Slaithwaite Keighley Have fun 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/134 "2004-12-21T11:59:46Z")
Bay Area pronunciations: San Francisco = SAN frun-SIS-co San Jose = SAN o-ZAY San Rafael = SAN ruh-FELL San Ramon = SAN ruh-MOAN Santa Clara = SAN-nuh CLAIRE-ruh Santa Cruz = SAN-nuh CRUISE (well, not precisely Bay Area, but sorta close) Sacramento = SACK-ruh-MEN-no (same) Vallejo = vuh-LAY-o San Mateo = SAN muh-TAY-o San Leandro = SAN lee-ANN-dro Los Gatos = lohs GA-tohs Antioch = ANNIE-ock Berkeley = BERK-lee ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/135 "2004-12-21T13:46:41Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Where? Quay is a [perfectly acceptable](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=quay) English word, pronounced either KEY or KAY. Yes, I know. I meant to type “quay is always **pronounced** as key”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/136 "2004-12-21T14:53:45Z")
> [@MidnightRadio](#): > > But then I saw **acsenray** ’s post mentioning Seminoles and I remembered that a lot of Seminoles from Florida were relocated to Oklahoma, so maybe there _is_ a connection. I think you misread my post, which was emphasizing the importance of the Miamis to _Ohio_ history. The Miami Nation of Oklahoma was relocated there from Ohio/Indiana/Illinois, not from Florida. The Miamis are not Seminoles. The Miamis are originally from the Midwest/Great Lakes area. I have yet to figure out how the name got transplanted to Florida. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/137 "2004-12-21T15:13:03Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I think you misread my post, which was emphasizing the importance of the Miamis to _Ohio_ history. The Miami Nation of Oklahoma was relocated there from Ohio/Indiana/Illinois, not from Florida. The Miamis are not Seminoles. The Miamis are originally from the Midwest/Great Lakes area. I have yet to figure out how the name got transplanted to Florida. It didn’t. Instead, it’s a coincidence, at least according to the [Encyclopaedia Britannica](http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=222949): > [@](#): > > Spaniards in the 16th century found a village (perhaps 2,000 years old) of Tequesta Indians on the site. The name Mayaimi, probably meaning “big water” or “sweet water,” may have referred to Lake Okeechobee or to local Native Americans who took their name from the lake. In 1567 the Spanish established a mission there as part of a futile attempt to subdue the Tequesta. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/138 "2004-12-21T15:54:43Z")
> [@davmilasav](#): > > The _crick_ that ran through town was the Connoquenessing, pronounced KAHN-uh-kuh-NESS-ing. I don’t get it. Okay, it’s a long word, but except for pronouncing the “qu” as a “k” instead of a “kw”, I don’t see what is unexpected about it. It’s exactly how I thought it would be pronounced when I first saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/139 "2004-12-21T16:11:33Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Santa Clara = SAN-nuh CLAIRE-ruh > Santa Cruz = SAN-nuh CRUISE (well, not precisely Bay Area, but sorta close) > Sacramento = SACK-ruh-MEN-no (same) > Antioch = ANNIE-ock Just for the record, those aren’t universal. I lived out there for 20 years, and most of the people I associated with pronounced the Ts (although lightly) in those city names. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040/140 "2004-12-21T16:22:54Z")
Woolfhardisworthy, anybody? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/s-m-i-t-h-pronounced-brown/280040.md?page=8)