# Sabre Tooth Tigers and Brea Tar Pits **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2001, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336 "2001-04-09T07:53:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Major\_Feelgud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/1 "2001-04-09T07:53:40Z")
Just watched the show on Saber Tooth tigers on the Discovery Channel and have these questions: 1. Why did they call them tigers, could they just have been saber tooth lions? 2. Can modern day tiger and lion skeletons be distinguished from each other? 3. Why did all these animals wander into the tar pits to their death? 4. Have they ever found any old human remains in the tar pits? ---
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/2 "2001-04-09T09:56:39Z")
I can answer question # 4. The last time I took the tour, we were told that no human remains were ever found in the pit. Question # 3 seems pretty simple. When fleeing from predators or chasing prey, you don’t have the luxury of watching every step you make, especially considering portions of pit were probably covered with dirt, twigs, leaves, etc. Also, it only seems like a lot of animals were caught because of the vast amount of time involved (About 50,000 years, IIRC). ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/3 "2001-04-09T13:35:45Z")
**Baraqiyal** , I think you’re mistaken. Last time I was at the pits – many years ago, admittedly – I distinctly remember that they said _one_ set of human remains had been found. It was a youngish female IIRC. In fact, I think there was an entire exhibit devoted to her; it was a flesh-and-clothing-covered “reconstruction” of her body based on her skeletal remains. I also recall that, given the damage to her skull, it was theorized that she had been murdered or sacrificed. Hope I’m remembering correctly. It’s been a while. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/4 "2001-04-09T14:04:56Z")
Genetically, there’s not much difference between lions and tigers. They can even be hybridized to produce a so-called “liger,” which suggests that the two lines diverged from one another relatively recently. I’m guessing that their skeletons would be difficult to distinguish from one another, but I don’t know that for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/5 "2001-04-09T14:05:44Z")
It’s possible that you’re both right–it’s not clear to me, from the Google hits I’m getting, whether La Brea Woman was found in the tarpit itself, or whether she was found somewhere else on the grounds of Rancho La Brea. [http://www.losangelesalmanac.com/topics/History/hi02v.htm](http://www.losangelesalmanac.com/topics/History/hi02v.htm) > [@](#): > > The only prehistoric human remains uncovered in the Rancho La Brea area were those of the La Brea Woman, found in 1914. From the Page Museum. What’s been found in the tarpits. [http://www.tarpits.org/treasure.html](http://www.tarpits.org/treasure.html) > [@](#): > > The remains of only one human has been recovered from the deposits. They belonged to a woman who lived here about 9,000 years ago. [http://www.tarpits.org/exhibits/fossils/index.html](http://www.tarpits.org/exhibits/fossils/index.html) > [@](#): > > In 1914, excavators uncovered a human skull and partial skeleton, dated at about 9,000 years old. Scientists studied the bones and can tell they are from a young woman about 22 to 24 years old who stood 4 feet 10 inches (1.5 meters) tall. The few teeth that still remain are very worn, indicating a diet of stone-ground meal. Parts of the skull are fractured. Some researchers believe she may have been killed by a blow to the head. No other human bones have been found at Rancho La brea. So is it “no other human bones have been found at the Rancho La Brea _tarpits_” or “no other human bones have been found at Rancho La Brea, period”? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/6 "2001-04-09T14:10:49Z")
1. Why did they call them tigers, could they just have been saber tooth lions? Scientists call them **Smilodons**. They are nor thought to be closely related to either lions or tigers. Saber tooths are members of the family **Felidea** , just like all modern cats. 1. Can modern day tiger and lion skeletons be distinguished from each other? Not easily. And they are so closely related, they can breed, making Ligers (or Tigons, depends on who the daddy is) 1. Why did all these animals wander into the tar pits to their death? They didn’t “wander” into [tar pits](http://www.lam.mus.ca.us/page/). Saber tooths primarily ambushed their prey. It is pretty easy to ambush an animal stuck in a tar pit. It would only take one entrapment every 10 years to account for all the fossils found so far. WAG, but during the Ice Age, those tar pits could have easily been whited out during a blizzrd. It is easy to imagine some prey animal wandering into it and becoming stuck. 1. Have they ever found any old human remains in the tar pits? No See [http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/carnivora/sabretooth.html](http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/carnivora/sabretooth.html) for further details. Or why not [http://www.discovery.com](http://www.discovery.com) as they reminded during the show? ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/7 "2001-04-09T15:03:25Z")
You know, I have no idea where I read this, but I think I recall reading something that debunked the common myth of the La Brea tarpits as some sort of clearing ground for fossilized animals. I have a bad case of monday morning fog, or I’d remember more details here… ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/8 "2001-04-09T16:48:37Z")
1. Tar is sticky, right? So the extra-gooey parts of the pit likely had a nice coating of dust and light debris. It probably looked like solid ground until stepped on/in. Struggling would further mire the critter that stepped in it. And sabre-tooths, seeing a struggling victim, might find the situation irresistable and wind up getting trapped as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/9 "2001-04-09T18:35:16Z")
1. Why did they call them tigers, could they just have been saber tooth lions? They were neither tigers nor lions in the sense of modern African lions with manes and prides or Asian tigers, orange and black striped. They were a different species entirely, just like the American “mountain lion” isn’t really a lion, but another species of cat. It’s just a name. Don’t get hung up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/10 "2001-04-09T20:10:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*3) Tar is sticky, right? So the extra-gooey parts of the pit likely had a nice coating of dust and light debris. It probably looked like solid ground until stepped on/in. Struggling would further mire the critter that stepped in it. And sabre-tooths, seeing a struggling victim, might find the situation irresistable and wind up getting trapped as well. \*\* No, the tarpits look more like a pond or lake, with a layer of water on top of the tar. Animals were attracted to the water to drink, became stuck, and in turn attracted predators to feed on them, also becoming stuck. ---
**Author:** ![pluto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f08c70/32.png) [@pluto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pluto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/11 "2001-04-09T23:29:50Z")
Hey, I was just there a couple of weeks ago! They are very clear that they found a human female skeleton in the tarpits, but that she was, as mentioned, almost certainly killed and then buried there rather than a victim of the tar itself. In addition they have found numerous human artifacts, mostly small tools. Rancho La Brea was a HUGE tract of land. The remaining preserved portion is only one or two percent of the original holding. It is the portion, obviously, where the asphalt came to the surface. The tarpits were used as a source of asphalt for roofs, etc., by the native Americans as well as the Spaniards and Anglos until quite recently. They assumed all the bones they found were unlucky cattle until someone with an education in fossils got a look at them. The appearance of the tarpits themselves varied according to climate or season. They were (are) only sticky in warm weather. I was there on a 70 degree day in the spring time and you could easily have walked on them without getting stuck. (Of course, I suppose this is what some mastodon said just before sinking up to his knees.) The “multimedia presentation” in the museum described both the standing water and the dusty surface scenarios mentioned above. It is significant that a very large percentage of the fossilized remains are those of predators and scavengers. The presumption is that they were attracted to an animal that was already stuck and then became stuck themselves. But, as mentioned, this wouldn’t have to happen very often to account for the large number of critters there, given the very long time the pits have been in existence. ---
**Author:** ![mipsman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mipsman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mipsman)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2001, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sabre-tooth-tigers-and-brea-tar-pits/61336/12 "2001-04-10T02:24:04Z")
Having been corrected once a long time ago, I make a point of calling them saber-toothed cats. Smilodons are just the North America version. There were sabre-toothed (note the European spelling) cats in the Old World but they are in a different genus. There were also cave lions at the same time, much bigger than today’s lions. I am almost certain that there is one shown at La Brea. The La Brea exhibits make the point that the reason they have so many predators is that paniced, trapped prey attracted many predators who, in turn, got stuck. I always like to make the point that the literal translation of “The La Brea Tarpits” is the the tarpits tarpits.