# Sacremental/Communion Wine and where it comes from **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2010, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196 "2010-07-01T15:12:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/41 "2010-07-14T16:48:24Z")
Raised Catholic, and an altar server from sixth through eighth grade (maybe a little bit later): The important thing, for Catholics, is what happens during the Consecration: they believe that the wine is transformed into the literal blood of Jesus Christ. That’s why you’ll never see a RCC church using one of those trays of little cups–it would be a huge pain to clean all the lingering drops of wine out of them. (FWIW, it’s also why you won’t see them using regular bread–too many crumbs.) When I served Mass, we usually set things up with wine, but for one priest (a recovering alcoholic), we were instructed to use grape juice instead. Things are a little fuzzy now (I haven’t been Catholic for about ten years), but IIRC my parish originally did not offer wine to the congregation at Communion. However, when they reinstituted the Communion railing,\* people would be offered a host that had been dipped in wine. \*These were railings between the pews and the altar, with pads in front of them and at such a height that you could comfortably kneel and place your elbows on the railing. Here are a couple of photos where you can kind of see them: ([1](http://www.stanthonyofpaduaparish.org/images/mainImage3.jpg))([2](http://www.stanthonyofpaduaparish.org/images/mainImage.jpg)) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/42 "2010-07-14T17:09:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think there might have been a shift towards wine being offered more often, in the past few decades. When I was a kid, it seemed to be the norm that most churches only offered the bread, except on big occasions like Christmas, Easter, or First Communion. Now, though, it seems like most parishes will have both, every week. I wonder about that, too. I grew up Catholic (in the 1970s and 1980s), in suburban Chicago (Joliet diocese), then in northeastern Wisconsin (Green Bay diocese), and wine was rarely, if ever, distributed to the congregation back then. It’s been at least a decade since I attended a Mass (I’m an ELCA Lutheran now), so I’m not familiar with how it’s being done now. ---
**Author:** ![Caveat\_lector\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@Caveat\_lector\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caveat_lector_1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/43 "2010-07-14T19:06:01Z")
I’m twenty seven and I’ve been to churches all over the place and it is rare to see communion under only one species in my experience. Recently some churches moved to only the host during the height of the flu panic, but they seem to have returned to offering the precious blood as well. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/44 "2010-07-14T20:19:52Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > When I served Mass, we usually set things up with wine, but for one priest (a recovering alcoholic), we were instructed to use grape juice instead. Things are a little fuzzy now (I haven’t been Catholic for about ten years), but IIRC my parish originally did not offer wine to the congregation at Communion. However, when they reinstituted the Communion railing,\* people would be offered a host that had been dipped in wine. Fellow former altar boy here. I think (maybe I’m wrong) that what you describe is a no-no. The wine _must_ be wine, not grape juice, just as the bread _must_ be wheaten. I vaguely remember reading about an incident in which the mother of a child with celiac disease sued her local parish, or maybe diocese, because they would not provide a host made from gluten-free bread. But I believe the rules are pretty strict about the bread and wine (and in any case, if someone cannot tolerate wheat, receiving Communion in the form of wine only is perfectly valid). ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/45 "2010-07-14T20:49:52Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The important thing, for Catholics, is what happens during the Consecration: they believe that the wine is transformed into the literal blood of Jesus Christ. That’s why you’ll never see a RCC church using one of those trays of little cups–it would be a huge pain to clean all the lingering drops of wine out of them. (FWIW, it’s also why you won’t see them using regular bread–too many crumbs.) Home-baked unleavened bread does, in fact, get used from time to time, typically in home masses. The cleanup is a PITA, true - tradition requires washing the chalices in a sink with a specialized drain which can’t really be used for anything else. The typical wafers are, in fact, available gluten-free, for those with allergies, however that probably functionally varies by diocese. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/46 "2010-07-14T21:14:02Z")
Re the posts by **Chronos** (#40) and **Saintly Loser** (#44): What they are speaking of are the rules for Latin-Rite Catholicism (“Roman Catholic”) – the requirements are quite different in other churches, as mentioned by numerous people. In Anglicanism, for example, the opportunity to commune under both species (bread and wine) must be offered, though it can be declined and in a few Anglo-Catholic parishes usually is. Orthodox bread must be leavened, IIRC, in contradistinction to **Chronos** ’s note that in Catholic practice it may not be. The purpose of the “fish food” wafers, by the way, is to have the bread in a form that will store well (definitely don’t want Jesus’ body getting moldy!) and which does not normally produce crumbs. Pressed single-serving wafers of bread do the trick; it’s not a theological requirement to use them, but a convenience. Many Anglican parishes use them simply for the convenience, though it’s commonly preferred to use a loaf of ‘real’ bread as more symboligally accurate. IIRC, offering communion under both species in Catholic churches was rare prior to Vatican II – the marrying couple at a nuptial Mass, for example, might be communed in both species, then the bridal party and guests under only one. The idea of offering it under both species to the whole congregation was part of Paul VI’s reforms, and still is unt universal throughout Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/47 "2010-07-14T21:23:51Z")
> [@Unpronounceable](#): > > The cleanup is a PITA, true - tradition requires washing the chalices in a sink with a specialized drain which can’t really be used for anything else. I remember that being explained when I was in altar boy training. Apparently the sink in question drains to the ground under the church, because you can’t have Christ’s blood mixing with sewage. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/48 "2010-07-14T21:29:39Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > You’d think so, but several years ago I was visiting an Episcopal church in Massachusetts and the communion wine was _white_. Or, more literally, yellow. I’m not much of a wine expert so I can’t tell you what kind it was, but when we got back to the pew after partaking, my wife whispered to me, “I think we just celebrated with the body and urine of Christ.” Assembly of God here, so grape juice only, of course. But our congregation commits the double-offense of white/yellow grape juice! So if it’s spilled, it doesn’t stain the carpet. Oy vey! And of course, bread chiclets. I swear, if they ever put me in charge of AoG liturgical reform… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/49 "2010-07-14T21:55:30Z")
> [@](#): > > The purpose of the “fish food” wafers, by the way, is to have the bread in a form that will store well (definitely don’t want Jesus’ body getting moldy!) It isn’t generally stored long after it’s consecrated (just long enough for it to get used up), and anything that happens to it before consecration is no big deal. If you found some moldy unconsecrated wafers in storage, you’d react the same way as if you found a loaf of moldy bread in your fridge: You’d throw it out, maybe wipe down the container with bleach to get rid of any spores, and buy some more. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196/50 "2010-07-15T15:21:42Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I think (maybe I’m wrong) that what you describe is a no-no. I’ve heard mixed reports. I do recall that we \*only \*used the juice for one priest; everyone else still used wine. It’s also possible that I’m misremembering something; this was more than a few years back. 1.) It’s possible they have different rules for priests and laypeople. It’s one thing to say “we’re not going to consecrate any grape juice in addition to the wine for the congregation”–after all, they can just eat the host and forego the wine. The priest, however, \*has \*to consecrate both and \*has \*to eat the bread and drink the wine. 2.) It’s also possible that they just did it “under the table,” so the speak–they knew they were “allowed” to consecrate grape juice, but what the higher-ups don’t know can’t hurt them, so they just swapped it out anyway. > [@Polycarp](#): > > Re the posts by **Chronos** (#40) and **Saintly Loser** (#44): What they are speaking of are the rules for Latin-Rite Catholicism (“Roman Catholic”) – the requirements are quite different in other churches, as mentioned by numerous people. In my case, to which \*\*Saintly \*\*was responding, this \*was \*a Roman Catholic church, as I believe I specified. In fact, it’s a notoriously \*conservative \*parish, especially in practice. (Lots of Opus Dei folks, or at least there used to be.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacremental-communion-wine-and-where-it-comes-from/545196.md?page=2)