# Sacrifice bad cops to Baal; to expiate American racism. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641 "2020-05-29T03:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/41 "2020-05-30T00:55:53Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You just argued against police officers being put in gen pop. Maybe you could explain how you want equal protection, but also protective custody for criminals that happened to be police officers at the time. > > ETA: If cops get extra protection in prison, why shouldn’t everyone else? Pretty much what Monty said. People should get protective custody in prison based on the likelihood of their being attacked. Not on the basis of who they are, what their crimes were, or what job they use to have. I wouldn’t put somebody into protective custody because he used to be a cop and I wouldn’t keep him out of protective custody because he used to be a cop. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/42 "2020-05-30T01:03:25Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Of course the ideal prison would have everyone safe from harm while incarcerated. That is rather pollyannish to hope for though. Actually, it’s the opposite of pollyannish. It’s considered to be cruel and unusual. They used to run prisons like that. They kept every prisoner isolated from other prisoners. The initial idea was to encourage their rehabilitation by separating each individual from the bad influence that the other criminals would have represented. But it had the side effect of dropping prison violence way down. No prisoner interaction meant prisoners had minimal opportunities to harm each other. But this isolation had really bad side effects. It turned out that the social isolation caused prisoners to develop all kinds of mental problems and left them worse off than when they entered prison. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/43 "2020-05-30T01:36:33Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I’ll leave it to others to judge whether I am pig stupid. I vote “pig stupid.” ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/44 "2020-05-30T01:56:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The thought process there revolves around all the capital punishment talk around the case. More and more I have come to see capital punishment as a kind of human sacrifice. Who’s on the receiving end of those? Well, Baal for one. Obviously in the OT this kind of thing was a Big Bad, and the impulse got transmuted into the scapegoat sacrifice, and you know where it evolved from there. … ::blink:: > [@](#): > > You could translate the whole rant as, “I don’t know how to express how upset I am that these things keep happening.” I’m sorry you’re upset. I am too. It sucks that these things keep happening. Nonetheless, that translation is … not how I would have summarized your OP, which was rather puzzling. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/45 "2020-05-30T02:58:51Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > You could translate the whole rant as, “I don’t know how to express how upset I am that these things keep happening.” I’ll admit I was not seeing that in the OP. I thought you were trying to make a “Black Lives Matter” vs “Blue Lives Matter” argument and you were saying that not supporting police officers like Derek Chauvin was the equivalent of condoning police officers being killed. And that the people protesting against police crimes against black victims were just virtue signaling. Sorry if I misinterpreted your message but to be fair you came at it pretty obliquely. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/46 "2020-05-30T03:18:40Z")
People, we’ve gone far beyond what is proposed in the thread title, possibly because it raises an uncomfortable theological question, to wit: Does Báal have any influence in the Western Hemi-Sphere? Then there’s how bloodthirsty he seems to not be. Instead, I suggest the sacrifices be made to Huītzilōpōchtli, the Aztec hummingbird God of war and human sacrifice and general bloody messes. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/47 "2020-05-30T03:31:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I vote “pig stupid.” Doh! ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/48 "2020-05-30T03:45:31Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > People, we’ve gone far beyond what is proposed in the thread title, possibly because it raises an uncomfortable theological question, to wit: Does Báal have any influence in the Western Hemi-Sphere? Then there’s how bloodthirsty he seems to not be. > > Instead, I suggest the sacrifices be made to Huītzilōpōchtli, the Aztec hummingbird God of war and human sacrifice and general bloody messes. At last, a pragmatic suggestion! Does “New World” mean _nothing_ to you people? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/49 "2020-05-30T03:54:11Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > You just argued against police officers being put in gen pop. Maybe you could explain how you want equal protection, but also protective custody for criminals that happened to be police officers at the time. > > ETA: If cops get extra protection in prison, why shouldn’t everyone else? We put people in prison because they are a danger to society and to punish them by taking away their freedom. We do not add in torture, rape, and or murder to these punishments. Even the worst criminals have a right to humane treatment. If we, as a society, decide that the punishments should be more severe, and that we should bring back public torture and executions, lets at least be honest about it, rather than getting someone to do our dirty work behind closed doors. I’d be against bringing back more brutal punishments, FTR. Tell you what, we can solve both problems, we put enough cops in prison that they can have whole prisons to themselves. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Actually, it’s the opposite of pollyannish. It’s considered to be cruel and unusual. > > They used to run prisons like that. They kept every prisoner isolated from other prisoners. The initial idea was to encourage their rehabilitation by separating each individual from the bad influence that the other criminals would have represented. But it had the side effect of dropping prison violence way down. No prisoner interaction meant prisoners had minimal opportunities to harm each other. > > But this isolation had really bad side effects. It turned out that the social isolation caused prisoners to develop all kinds of mental problems and left them worse off than when they entered prison. I’m not entirely sure that most people come out of prison not being worse off than they went in with out current system either. Sure, isolation is worse, but it’s not like society really gives a whit about how someone is treated once they are convicted of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/50 "2020-05-30T03:54:28Z")
Huītzilōpōchtli wouldn’t be coming up here to accept blood sacrifices of our police officers if we had build The Wall. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/51 "2020-05-30T03:57:40Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I’m not entirely sure that most people come out of prison not being worse off than they went in with out current system either. Sure, isolation is worse, but it’s not like society really gives a whit about how someone is treated once they are convicted of a crime. Well, society may not give a whit. Or even a hoot. But that’s not really an issue because society isn’t dealing with these people. However, those of us who worked with prisoners spend a lot of time and effort on rehabilitation. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/52 "2020-05-30T04:38:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll admit I was not seeing that in the OP. I thought you were trying to make a “Black Lives Matter” vs “Blue Lives Matter” argument and you were saying that not supporting police officers like Derek Chauvin was the equivalent of condoning police officers being killed. And that the people protesting against police crimes against black victims were just virtue signaling. No. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/53 "2020-05-30T04:45:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I for one, do not think that trying and convicting this dude for the murder he committed in any way makes up for, undoes, or absolves society of its problems with historical racism. Noted. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/54 "2020-05-30T05:10:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Well, society may not give a whit. Or even a hoot. But that’s not really an issue because society isn’t dealing with these people. > > However, those of us who worked with prisoners spend a lot of time and effort on rehabilitation. And I appreciate those who do. I know the toll it takes on you. I had a friend that became a corrections officer, and it changed him. I really didn’t like the person that he became. He wasn’t a bad person or anything, just more distant and cold, quicker to anger or frustration. However, I don’t think that we do spend the resources we need to truly put convicted criminals on a path to be productive citizens. We also do not give them the opportunities on the outside to be successful, convicts are one of the few classes of people that you are not only allowed to, but encouraged to discriminate against. I’ve never been to prison, in any capacity, and I prefer to keep it that way, but having worked most of my life in low wage jobs, I’ve met many who have. Most of them did not much enjoy their stay and did not find it enlightening or educational, though they often had at least one or two prison stories that at least they thought was hilarious. Anyway, they had no prospects. They were not going to ever get a job that cared about background checks or criminal histories, which is most jobs that pay a reasonable wage. Turning back to crime is tempting when the alternative is poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/55 "2020-05-30T05:27:35Z")
Yo, **Chisquirrel**! I’m still waiting on your proposed rewarding for the person who kills the convicted cop in prison. Or, just maybe, you’re venting irrationally and have thought better about what you said here. Which is it? [list=a][li]Irrational venting[/li]You have a well-thought out plan to reward the future killer, regardless of what crime landed him in prison in the first place[/list] ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/56 "2020-05-30T05:42:51Z")
[quote=“Monty, post:55, topic:854641”] Yo, **Chisquirrel**! I’m still waiting on your proposed rewarding for the person who kills the convicted cop in prison. Or, just maybe, you’re venting irrationally and have thought better about what you said here. Which is it? [list=a][li]Irrational venting[/li][li]You have a well-thought out plan to reward the future killer, regardless of what crime landed him in prison in the first place[/list][/li][/QUOTE] Even in prison, you are not allowed to kill people, so if they were to get their wish and someone shanked this POS, then they are also wishing for someone else to be punished as payment to sate their blood lust. I get the desire for vengeance, and if I had personal connections to a victim of police brutality, I don’t know that I would be rational in my desire for harm to come to the perpetrator. That’s why we have a justice system that is supposedly fair\* in nature, rather than meting out the punishment proposed by those most offended. \*the question of whether our supposedly fair system of justice is actually what is in question, and the doubt that it is is what fuels the protests and even riots. Vigilante justice exists in places where actual justice does not. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/57 "2020-05-30T10:04:49Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Even in prison, you are not allowed to kill people, so if they were to get their wish and someone shanked this POS, then they are also wishing for someone else to be punished as payment to sate their blood lust. > > I get the desire for vengeance, and if I had personal connections to a victim of police brutality, I don’t know that I would be rational in my desire for harm to come to the perpetrator. That’s why we have a justice system that is supposedly fair\* in nature, rather than meting out the punishment proposed by those most offended. > > \*the question of whether our supposedly fair system of justice is actually what is in question, and the doubt that it is is what fuels the protests and even riots. Vigilante justice exists in places where actual justice does not. Nope. That is not what they are saying. This is someone posting here who supposedly does not actually have personal connections with the murder victim. This is someone who has given thought to the post as evidenced by his defense of it. They are saying that justice to be done will require a prisoner to murder another prisoner. Vigilantism does not only exist in places where “actual justice” does not. Vigilantes have been known to take the law into their own hands because they felt that extralegal punishment is more fitting. And the crimes for which they’ve punished, as in killing people, have fairly often not been crimes whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/58 "2020-05-30T11:42:21Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > At last, a pragmatic suggestion! > > Does “New World” mean _nothing_ to you people? Indeed! And the prison system contains many descendants of His worshippers, so the hurdle of widespread acceptance is eased. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Huītzilōpōchtli wouldn’t be coming up here to accept blood sacrifices of our police officers if we had build The Wall. Utter nonsense! He’s a hummingbird so He can fly over it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/59 "2020-05-30T15:34:10Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Nope. That is not what they are saying. This is someone posting here who supposedly does not actually have personal connections with the murder victim. This is someone who has given thought to the post as evidenced by his defense of it. They are saying that justice to be done will require a prisoner to murder another prisoner. > > Vigilantism does not only exist in places where “actual justice” does not. Vigilantes have been known to take the law into their own hands because they felt that extralegal punishment is more fitting. And the crimes for which they’ve punished, as in killing people, have fairly often not been crimes whatsoever. Oh, I wasn’t agreeing with them at all. I was just saying that if you have a personal connection to a victim of violence, then I understand the desire for vengeance rather than justice. If someone I loved met a brutal end, I cannot claim that I would react rationally. It would not justify my actions if I were to take vengeance myself, but the desire would be understandable. That the poster in question does not have a personal connection means that they don’t want to see justice, nor vengeance for a loved one, but they just want to see violence and murder for the sake of sating their desire for blood. That’s never justifiable. I didn’t say that vigilantism _only_ exists in places where actual justice does not. I said that vigilantism _will_ exist in places where actual justice does not. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/60 "2020-05-30T15:39:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They aren’t going to be killed; it’s highly unlikely they’ll even be punished. They’ll go right back to murdering people without punishment or restraint once the fires die back down. The officer who kneeled on George Floyd’s neck has been [charged with murder.](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/29/minn-governor-acknowledges-abject-failure-in-protest-response-289304) Also, his [wife has filed for divorce.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wife-officer-charged-murder-george-floyd-announces-she-s-divorcing-n1219276) No idea what will happen to the other cops who were there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641.md?page=4)