# Sacrifice bad cops to Baal; to expiate American racism. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2020, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641 "2020-05-29T03:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/61 "2020-05-30T18:54:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And I appreciate those who do. I know the toll it takes on you. I had a friend that became a corrections officer, and it changed him. I really didn’t like the person that he became. He wasn’t a bad person or anything, just more distant and cold, quicker to anger or frustration. > > However, I don’t think that we do spend the resources we need to truly put convicted criminals on a path to be productive citizens. We also do not give them the opportunities on the outside to be successful, convicts are one of the few classes of people that you are not only allowed to, but encouraged to discriminate against. > > I’ve never been to prison, in any capacity, and I prefer to keep it that way, but having worked most of my life in low wage jobs, I’ve met many who have. Most of them did not much enjoy their stay and did not find it enlightening or educational, though they often had at least one or two prison stories that at least they thought was hilarious. > > Anyway, they had no prospects. They were not going to ever get a job that cared about background checks or criminal histories, which is most jobs that pay a reasonable wage. Turning back to crime is tempting when the alternative is poverty. I’ll admit it hits a nerve with me when I hear things like this (and I have heard it many times). It’s people who think they have come up with a brilliant original idea when they suggest we should try rehabilitating prisoners. Would you ask a doctor or a nurse, _“Hey, I don’t know anything about how hospitals work. But I know there’s a lot of sick people inside them. Why don’t you guys try curing those sick people?”_ Obviously the fact that there are still sick people in the world means nobody is trying to cure them. Just like the fact that there are still criminals in the world means that nobody is trying to rehabilitate them. We just need somebody on the outside to point out the obvious solution to us. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/62 "2020-05-30T20:01:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ll admit it hits a nerve with me when I hear things like this (and I have heard it many times). It’s people who think they have come up with a brilliant original idea when they suggest we should try rehabilitating prisoners. I’m not sure that I’ve declared any ideas, brilliant or otherwise, just pointed out what I see is a problem. That people usually come out of jail with fewer prospects of a dignified, much less successful, life. > [@](#): > > Would you ask a doctor or a nurse, _“Hey, I don’t know anything about how hospitals work. But I know there’s a lot of sick people inside them. Why don’t you guys try curing those sick people?”_ No, but I would ask a doctor or a nurse, “I don’t know anything about how hospitals work, but I know that there’s a lot of sick people in them. Do you need more resources in order to cure those sick people? What can society do to help support your efforts?” I may even ask a patient, “Hey, you’ve been sick for quite a while, and you don’t seem to be getting better, is there anything that society can do to help you get better?” > [@](#): > > Obviously the fact that there are still sick people in the world means nobody is trying to cure them. Just like the fact that there are still criminals in the world means that nobody is trying to rehabilitate them. We just need somebody on the outside to point out the obvious solution to us. I don’t know that I know any criminals. I do know people that once were convicted of committing crimes and have convictions. I know the struggles that they deal with due to their past. The fact that there are convicts in the world who are not allowed to move forward due to the rules society has put upon them for being a convict means that there are convicts in the world who are not allowed to move forward due to the rules society has put upon them for being a convict, no more, no less. Do you truly believe that the justice system is doing everything it can to return these people to society as productive and law abiding citizens? If so, then we’ll just have to disagree as I review the results. If not, then rather than insulting me for asking what it is that you need to improve results, maybe try offering some solutions that you think would work. Maybe if people on the outside of the system cared about those in the system, then we may make some progress. If you’d rather that people outside the system continue to not give a shit what happens to convicted individuals, then you can keep doing what you are doing to push us away and alienate us. Between the fact that I am not wanting to improve conditions for your sake, and the fact that, as I said, I know that being involved in the prison system can make one cold and distant, as well as quick to anger and frustration, I will not let your misguided attempts at belittlement dissuade me from caring about the people whose lives are destroyed by their encounter with the “justice” system. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/63 "2020-05-30T20:28:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Obviously the fact that there are still sick people in the world means nobody is trying to cure them. Just like the fact that there are still criminals in the world means that nobody is trying to rehabilitate them. We just need somebody on the outside to point out the obvious solution to us. The US takes a distinctly harder line on prisoners and tends to view prison as punishment and not rehabilitation. Are there some rehabilitation programs in prison? Sure. But it remains US prisons do a terrible job at rehabilitation. US recidivism rates are among the highest in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/64 "2020-05-31T06:10:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The US takes a distinctly harder line on prisoners and tends to view prison as punishment and not rehabilitation. > > Are there some rehabilitation programs in prison? Sure. But it remains US prisons do a terrible job at rehabilitation. US recidivism rates are among the highest in the world. All those wonderful rehabilitation program you hear about in other countries? They all originated in American prisons. The United States has always been the leader in prison rehabilitation. Don’t blame prisons for crime in America. American society is what’s producing the crime. Prisons are where society sends the crime and expects us to preforms miracles and fix the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2020, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641/65 "2020-05-31T23:44:39Z")
There are “bad cops,” but even those who would otherwise be “good cops” are being influenced by the paramilitary mindset and training that’s become common in the USA. There has been pushback on this “warrior” culture, during certain periods. For one thing the massive infusion of military-grade equipment into police departments has been noted and efforts to change the situation made: > [@](#): > > …The pushback led then-President Barack Obama to research and release a 2014 Executive Office report on how federal programs had supplied police departments with military equipment. He issued Executive Order 13688, placing restrictions on the federal transfer and funding of military equipment for local police that blocked the inclusion of gear such as tracked armored vehicles, rifles with bayonets, battering rams, riot gear and explosives. The executive order also required more training and stricter documentation requirements around the use of the gear. > > But, President Trump reversed Obama’s restrictions and fully restored the program Obama had cut. Then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions said to the Federal Order of Police in Nashville. “Those restrictions went too far. … We will not put superficial concerns above public safety.” The Trump administration has allowed equipment to flow freely and intensified concerns around the danger that militarized police forces bring. > > **Researchers in recent years have shown that places with more military gear have increased police killings**. … (my emphasis) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/05/28/explaining-militarized-police-response-protesters-after-killing-george-floyd/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/05/28/explaining-militarized-police-response-protesters-after-killing-george-floyd/) Stop training the police to see those they police as an “enemy.” Start training them to, instead, Protect and Serve. This alone would help weed out the bully-boys and white supremacists, who would feel less welcome in a force focused on protecting and serving. But now they feel very welcome indeed in a force focused on “taking out” an enemy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sacrifice-bad-cops-to-baal-to-expiate-american-racism/854641.md?page=3)