# Sad little fashion nazis **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461 "2005-07-07T15:46:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/41 "2005-07-10T08:49:49Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > But tapered or pegged pants make your butt look big. > > Actually, let me amend that. Tapered pants make your butt look _huge_. So unless you’re built like a stick with no butt and want to encourage it, they are _not_ flattering to the average woman. They make you look like a whale, even if you’re otherwise quite svelt. I was shocked when I switched to wider legged pants how much thinner I look wearing them, without losing a pound. > > Maybe you don’t mind if your butt looks big, but I do and so do most women I know. Otherwise, why else the classic joke question, “Does this make my butt look big?”, to which there is no decent answer for the poor man involved? I’m not a stick, but I do have an hourglass figure, and I’ve never had any complaints from the male half of the populace and haven’t ever been ambushed by any makeover shows. Yet. Even now that I’m ancient and have gotten chunkier with age, my waist is much much smaller than my hips, and my bustline is WAY bigger than my waist. Not that I don’t also wear palazzo pants and the like, but I also like a plain legged jean. I HATE HATE HATE bell bottoms. Yeah, my butt looks like a bubble butt in jeans. Since it’s one of the few solid tight things I have left in my old age, I’d like to hold on to showing it off as long as possible. But I agree with your other assessments of WNtW, I too find a lot of good hints, although, I’d have to get any expensive items like the ones they showcase tailored, pants that fit my hips NEvEr fit my waist, and the same goes for jackets and shirts, if they fit my bustline, they’re huge in the waist area. Sigh, I can’t wait til I move into my new (larger, room for stuff) apartment, I’m going to start sewing my own clothes. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/42 "2005-07-10T18:06:25Z")
I should just point out that the opposite of “pegged” jeans are not bell bottoms. Almost no one wears “bell bottoms” anymore without getting really strange looks. Flaired jeans are by no means bell bottoms as bell bottoms have huge…bells. The flair is minor and often counters the hips. I know my big hipped self could never wear straight legged jeans, let alone pegged jeans. Aye. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/43 "2005-07-10T18:36:58Z")
I wear jeans that are boot cut or very slightly flared, which bear virtually _no_ resemblance to the huge bell bottoms I wore in my youth. The idea is that if your body line goes straight down or out slightly (such as with a slightly flared skirt) from the hips, it actually diminishes the size of the hips. But the value of good tailoring is indescribable. I’ve been sewing for many years so do my own alterations, if need be, but mostly I try to buy things that are flattering to begin with. And I do think I look a _lot_ better. I agree that fashion critique shows are often mindless drivel. But if people wear clothes for the sole purpose of being talked about, they’re at least providing work for the otherwise untalented, right? And there’s obviously a market for these shows or there wouldn’t be so many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lisa-go-Blind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Lisa-go-Blind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lisa-go-Blind)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/44 "2005-07-11T00:20:23Z")
> [@The Scrivener](#): > > Is this show any worse than TLC’s “What Not to Wear,” with its snide put-downs, emotional manipulation, wardrobe tossing, and debatable advice? (Which usually consists of imposing skin-revealing and form-fitting disposable pieces _du jour_ on the subject, regardless of how resistant she is to wearing them.) Have you ever seen the show? First of all, the hosts spend more time “imposing” garments to cover up skin and figure flaws. A much larger number of those being remade are wearing inappropriately skimpy or ill-fitting outfits, not overdressing. Second, “disposable pieces _du jour_?” The hosts emphasize in _every episode_ the importance of buying good quality, classic pieces that will last for years - they go out of their way to jettison prefaded jeans, Ugg boots, Ambercrombie-style T-shirts, etc. Finally, “regardless of how resistant she is to wearing them”: Clinton and Stacy ask the subject to try clothes on. He or she is _not obligated to buy them_. The hosts are simply trying to help the subject out of the fashion rut by having them try on something they wouldn’t normally try on. Sometimes, the subject will continue to say that she doesn’t like it. That’s OK; they’ll find something else that she does like. Usually though, she’ll agree that what she’s wearing now does look a lot better than her usual attire. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/45 "2005-07-11T03:33:14Z")
I’m thinking that the people ragging on WNTW haven’t actually watched the show - I’ve never seen anyone put down - just given the opportunity to get some clothing that fits really well, flatters their shape and makes them feel good about themselves. Oh well, these complaints get a big fat “whatever” from me. Also, peg-leg jeans look like shit on every person who has ever put them on, period. If you want to wear them, fine. But they look brutal. I know this without even seeing you, because they look brutal on everyone. They look brutal on supermodels, they look brutal on waifs. The look particularly brutal on women with hourglass figures. They make the ass look like a huge, flat, unattractive pancake. They can take an otherwise lovely shape and distort it into a disaster. Peg-leg pants should be gathered up, ripped into shreds and used to make quilts for starving orphans - that’s the only way they could be anything other than brutal. BRUTAL. But, if that’s what you like - go to town. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/46 "2005-07-11T03:53:44Z")
I have watched WNTW. Twice. I sat through a second episode to see if it was any better. The second episode was even worse than the first, a completely embarrassing ambush that did appear to mortify the target. It made me very sad and that is why I wrote that I disliked it. I would not write that about a show I had not watched. Perhaps I caught the only two shoes on which they totally ridiculed the victims. Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/47 "2005-07-11T05:28:28Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > I have watched WNTW. Twice. I sat through a second episode to see if it was any better. The second episode was even worse than the first, a completely embarrassing ambush that did appear to mortify the target. It made me very sad and that is why I wrote that I disliked it. I would not write that about a show I had not watched. Perhaps I caught the only two shoes on which they totally ridiculed the victims. Who knows? I guess maybe I focus on the carrot, instead of the stick. Honestly, I’m pretty pro fashion, shopping, and all that other shallow stuff (I have a quote by Oscar Wilde I could insert here, but I’ll control myself) and I can say that if Clinton and Stacey showed up at my office, hauled me out and said your friends think you dress like a tool, we’re gonna take you to NY and give you $5,000 to spend on clothes, I would be totally delighted. Thrilled. Two fashion stylists at my beck and call to help me out - amazing. It would be like having Jeo Weider spoting you at the gym. Secondly, I feel compelled to point out that many of their ‘subjects’ haven’t had the funds to buy new clothes (students, single moms, whatever) and are now at a point in their life where some new clothes, a good hair cut and some makeup could really help them not only feel better about themselves, but also land a job. (There are very few jobs that you can interview for in oversized sweats, hole-filled jeans, or ripped up sweaters.) Obviously, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/48 "2005-07-11T06:38:12Z")
> [@Mama Tiger](#): > > II agree that fashion critique shows are often mindless drivel. But if people wear clothes for the sole purpose of being talked about, they’re at least providing work for the otherwise untalented, right? And there’s obviously a market for these shows or there wouldn’t be so many of them. Heh heh Sometimes that is WhY I watch that sort of show, because they are mindless drivel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/49 "2005-07-11T10:16:28Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I guess maybe I focus on the carrot, instead of the stick. Honestly, I’m pretty pro fashion, shopping, and all that other shallow stuff (I have a quote by Oscar Wilde I could insert here, but I’ll control myself) and I can say that if Clinton and Stacey showed up at my office, hauled me out and said your friends think you dress like a tool, we’re gonna take you to NY and give you $5,000 to spend on clothes, I would be totally delighted. Thrilled. Two fashion stylists at my beck and call to help me out - amazing. It would be like having Jeo Weider spoting you at the gym. Absolutely agree. I dress horribly - and one of the main reasons is that while I think I know what would look good on me, I simply do not have the funds. I would love it if they showed up and handed me $5000 to buy the clothes (actually, not the clothes so much, but the tailoring) that I wish I could buy. (The other reason is that I don’t really care that much. So, I may as well be left to their devices as to my own) As far as celebrities? Their job is to look good, to dress right, to be beautiful. They pay people very good money to make sure that they aren’t wearing horrible clothing. And they have the ready cash to keep up appearances. A lot of thought, time, effort, money, and planning goes into their public appearances - they have no excuse when they look truly awful. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/50 "2005-07-11T15:46:30Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Also, peg-leg jeans look like shit on every person who has ever put them on, period. If you want to wear them, fine. But they look brutal. I know this without even seeing you, because they look brutal on everyone. They look brutal on supermodels, they look brutal on waifs. The look particularly brutal on women with hourglass figures. They make the ass look like a huge, flat, unattractive pancake. They can take an otherwise lovely shape and distort it into a disaster. Peg-leg pants should be gathered up, ripped into shreds and used to make quilts for starving orphans - that’s the only way they could be anything other than brutal. BRUTAL. > > But, if that’s what you like - go to town. Preach. It. Sister. Peg jeans are the single worst fashion item out there. Don’t get me wrong, trendy stuff can be bad; but even the trendy stuff doesn’t make people look as bad as peg jeans. Have you ever seen the “mom jeans” faux commercial on SNL? Thems be peg jeans. They aren’t cute. They make EVERYONE’S ass and hips look HUGE. And, for some reason, peg jeans go hand in hand with mom camel toe. Ew (maybe just my experience). ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/51 "2005-07-11T16:16:15Z")
I haven’t seen a real person peg their jeans since 1990. I thought everyone knew that was bad fashion. And I know this isn’t related to celebrity critiques or fashion commentators, but I am really fucking sick of chicks who are 20lbs. overweight wearing low-rise pants and belly shirts. If you have a spare tire, cover it. It’s that simple. Oh, and pull up your shit so your thong isn’t hanging out. It’s not sexy, it’s trashy as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/52 "2005-07-11T16:34:04Z")
One of the major reasons I hate this shit, one that is very present in this thread, is that some people don’t seem to understand that their opinion is not high fuck holy dogma. “Oh, those pants make her ass look big, therefore she’s a stupid ditz for wearing them in public.” _Hello, McFly_! Some people like big asses! What your pompous ass might think is hideous might be a half step away from liquid fuck for someone else. Get over yourselves! > [@Mama Tiger](#): > > at least providing work for the otherwise untalented This never has been, is not, and never will be a good thing. Somewhat related is [this article](http://www.insidebayarea.com/bayarealiving/ci_2785449) about a goth girl and a preppy blonde both trying to get a job at Abercrombie. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/53 "2005-07-11T17:49:04Z")
You do all know that WNTW comes in a British (original) version as well as the US copy, right? Thank Og for digital cable and BBC America. Susannah and Trinny do seem much more supportive, even though they’re firm. They do try to educate their subjects as well as guide them, and only rarely do they get downright rude - maybe because that would expose them to body-weight comments? Trinny looks anorexic and Susannah needs to ask Santa for a Treadmaster. Stacy and Clinton on the US version are cruisin’ for a bruisin’ someday. Clinton got cast apparently because some producer said “Hey, this is a fashion show, and look at Queer Eye’s ratings! We gotta get us a gay guy too!” Unfortunately he doesn’t know anything but how to be catty. And Stacy spends half her screen time brushing her damn hair behind her damn ear and saying “Shut! Up!”. She’s no prize, either - she needs to get a poofier hair style to help disguise that hawk beak. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/54 "2005-07-11T18:28:16Z")
**Troy** I love you to death, you know this. And I apologize for not clarifying: people can wear whatever makes them happy. Period. If you are happy, that is all that counts. But most women will agree that certain things are universally NOT FLATTERING. Most of these things were very trendy at one point or another (read: usually the 80’s), but were not flattering then and are still not flattering now. I think this point is proven by the fact that most (wide brush) on the make over shows are AMAZED by how much better they look with proper fitting pants, tailored shirts, etc. No one should conform to an image that makes them look uncomfortable- ever, ever, ever. But good clothing really can give you an ego boost. Is that healthy? Eh, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461/55 "2005-07-12T16:08:10Z")
I used to love WNTW when Wayne and Stacey were on it–it seemed that they had a completely different philosophy, and tried hard to work with each subject to help them find clothes _in the style that they liked_ that would look good on them. Wayne was snarky but he was kind, and seemed to genuinely delight in dressing people of all body types and sizes. These days, now that Clinton has replaced Wayne, it’s different. Don’t get me wrong–I like Clinton–but I think the producers of the show have changed its focus and not for the better. Back when Wayne was on, I thought it might be fun to try out for the show (I’m not a fashion disaster but I live in T-shirts and jeans), but these days–no way. I’m a tomboy and happy to be one. They would try to put me in “sexy” stuff (which I despise), pointy-toed high heels (which I wouldn’t be caught dead in, not to mention I’d probably hurt myself trying to walk in them) and other similar stuff in an attempt to make me more “feminine,” while I would be much happier if they could help me find slacks, jackets, and other items to make my geek/goth/tomboy look more stylish but still in keeping with my basic personality. I don’t get the feeling that they would do that anymore. Oddly enough, they _do_ seem to do more of that with the men–they cater more to their style and what kinds of clothes would work best with it, and don’t try to turn them into cookie-cutter fashion dolls like they do with the women. It’s really quite disappointing, because I used to never miss the show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-little-fashion-nazis/311461.md?page=2)