# sad state of marine corp boot camp **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458 "2013-04-23T01:52:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/21 "2013-04-23T04:55:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I thought we went over this and only the Army and Navy take draftees? I’m sure that’s true. Mostly. I knew a guy (now passed) who was a WWII Navy draftee. He was eligible on special criteria, and when he turned up for induction they accepted him. He was also, briefly, probably the most junior commissioned officer in the USN, commissioned one day after his group. But that wasn’t related: that was because his supervising officer didn’t like him, and tried to block his commission. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/22 "2013-04-23T04:59:05Z")
> [@stavechoker](#): > > Marine corps has always been a volinteer force except late in67 they did take some army draftees.pullups are harder of course I could do 12 inbootcamp but im 67with torn cartiledgein my left shoulder so chinups are what I can do. In todays bootcamp they only have to do 3.there out ot shape when they’ go in and stillnot in shape when they graduate. I still don’t understand why you are telling us any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/23 "2013-04-23T05:39:15Z")
Is it possible that the training has gotten smarter while less physically taxing? To use an inexact metaphor, I’m reminded of tennis and baseball players who need to be coached NOT to hit the ball so hard. In tennis, better placement can be achieved by taking something off of it. A hitter strikes out less and makes better contact when not swinging for the fences. Are the Marines perhaps making their people better by easing off on certain aspects that don’t yield as much gain while conentrating on more impoertant things? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/24 "2013-04-23T06:26:11Z")
> [@stavechoker](#): > > there out ot shape when they’ go in and stillnot in shape when they graduate. Assuming this is true, I agree with you. After all it is the USMC, these are jarheads, they’re supposed to be the best physical specimens we have in the military. I’m just not so sure what you say is true. I can tell you for sure a buddy who finished up in 2002 in no way meets your description, and I don’t recall meeting an out of shape marine of any age. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/25 "2013-04-23T06:55:46Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > Is it possible that the training has gotten smarter while less physically taxing? > > To use an inexact metaphor, I’m reminded of tennis and baseball players who need to be coached NOT to hit the ball so hard. In tennis, better placement can be achieved by taking something off of it. A hitter strikes out less and makes better contact when not swinging for the fences. Are the Marines perhaps making their people better by easing off on certain aspects that don’t yield as much gain while conentrating on more impoertant things? I have no connection to anything military, but my guess that some would argue that isn’t the point–perhaps by trying to make athletes and body builders, they neglect the old method of destroying the recruit’s old personality and reshaping him into a Marine with all the mental as well as physical toughness that should imply. Having recruits hike in athletic shoes rather than boots might be analogous to giving them a shop vac rather than a toothbrush when it’s their turn to clean the head–yeah, the head gets just as clean and much faster that way, but was that the point of the exercise? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/26 "2013-04-23T07:24:05Z")
> [@stavechoker](#): > > We were pushed to our physical limets. In the beginning we were kept up for 2 days we were reduced to zero and rebuilt to marine corp specs.you could be choked punched if you made a mistake. The weakest were singled out and given special attention. It was the old corps.nobody who was in my platoon in bootcamp would’ve said it was easy. But now they are allowed cell phones computers.and they come out saying it was easy and the pt was nothing.the whole idea is to getrid or the nonhackers and they aren’t doing it. So, you’re not willing to consider the possibility that people are showing up for boot camp in good shape? As indicated above, any recruit these days has known for months ahead of time what he’s in for, and has been training for it. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/27 "2013-04-23T08:09:49Z")
Back in my day, we had to walk uphill both ways to the market to bring home a bucket of sand for dinner, in the snow, without any shoes! Kids today, _rabble rabble rabble_ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/28 "2013-04-23T08:13:13Z")
The point of military training isn’t to be “hard”, it’s to produce effective troops and units. Hardness is a tool, not an end to itself, and it’s not the only tool out there, or the best. Unless the OP can show that today’s Marines are inferior fighters than those of his generation, he has no case. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/29 "2013-04-23T13:08:10Z")
> [@stavechoker](#): > > But now they are allowed cell phones computers. You can’t see me, but I have my “skeptical face” on right now. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/30 "2013-04-23T13:14:42Z")
> [@stavechoker](#): > > We were pushed to our physical limets. In the beginning we were kept up for 2 days we were reduced to zero and rebuilt to marine corp specs.you could be choked punched if you made a mistake. The weakest were singled out and given special attention. It was the old corps.nobody who was in my platoon in bootcamp would’ve said it was easy. But now they are allowed cell phones computers.and they come out saying it was easy and the pt was nothing.the whole idea is to getrid or the nonhackers and they aren’t doing it. [http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinejoin/a/marinebasic.htm](http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinejoin/a/marinebasic.htm) > [@](#): > > The other services have lists of what you should or should not bring with you. The Marines make it simple: Don’t bring anything except your important papers (such as driver’s license, social security card, and banking information), except the clothes on your back. Everything you need will be issued to you. For non-issue items, it will be issued, and the cost taken out of your pay. > [@](#): > > The other services give you a slight break during the in-processing phase. Not the Marine Corps: Discipline starts the second you walk off the bus…You’ll most likely begin the process late at night, or in the early morning hours. The other services do a quick processing and allow you to rack out for the rest of the night. In the Marine Corps, you’ll be up the entire first night, and all of the next day (so get plenty of sleep on that bus, train, or plane). > [@](#): > > While in Receiving, you’ll be given the Initial Strength Test (IST). To pass (and avoid the Physical Conditioning Platoon), you’ll be required to do 2 dead-hang pull-ups, 44 crunches in 2 minutes, and a 1.5 mile run in 13.5 minutes (males). > [@](#): > > Jason, a member of our message forum, adds the following: > We didn’t get “dropped,” so to speak, at Parris Island. If you mess up a general order, they’ll usually give you another chance to get it right. If it’s obvious you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, they’ll either send you to the quarterdeck or, if they can’t quarterdeck you right then, they’ll give your name to the scribe, and you’ll be put on one of two lists: the “Kill List,” which the drill instructor will call everyone on the kill list up to the quarterdeck later on and smoke them, or the Firewatch List, where you’ll get to wake up at 0100 or so and stay awake for an hour doing next to nothing. There’s 16 firewatch per night, so everybody gets firewatch every 4-5 nights, but firewatch as punishment is always brutal on a night you were hoping to sleep. The quarterdeck can last a long, long time. I was up there for a total of about 4 hours on Christmas Eve (I didn’t qualify my first try on the rifle range, but shot Sharpshooter the next time out). You’re basically exercising your @$$ off and sounding off at the top of your lungs at the same time. Anything from pushups, crunches, running in place, arm rotations, side straddle hops, steam engines and more can be used on the quarterdeck or the pit. If you’re a guide, squad leader, or “special recruit,” expect to get smoked on a daily basis. I was only up on the quarterdeck 8 or 9 times total in the 12 weeks of training (there’s no physical punishment during Receiving). This fits with my experience in 1995. There’s no reason to choke or punch a recruit…unless you’re so stupid that you can’t figure out another way to ‘motivate’ them. And DIs, as a whole, are not stupid. ETA: Not that you’ll see this until noon, when you wake up from your binge at the VFW. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/31 "2013-04-23T14:00:59Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Welcome to the SDMB, where wit, a sense of humor and pop cultural references are part and partial to learning from the brightest folks on the web. Also, spelling and punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/32 "2013-04-23T14:04:24Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Back in my day, we had to walk uphill both ways to the market to bring home a bucket of sand for dinner, in the snow, without any shoes! > > Kids today, _rabble rabble rabble_ You had sand? Slacker! We just had to gnaw the galvanizing off the bucket and make zinc oxide soup. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/33 "2013-04-23T14:11:25Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > You had sand? Slacker! We just had to gnaw the galvanizing off the bucket and make zinc oxide soup. You had a bucket? We had to use our hands, and we made soup out of skin scrapings. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/34 "2013-04-23T14:18:04Z")
Skin? Skin is a luxury. Our drill instructors flayed us on the first day for not knowing how to fold hospital corners. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/35 "2013-04-23T14:20:23Z")
So clearly they are better prepared and in better shape than you were going in. That’s probably why they think it’s easy. Because they are doing the PX90 stuff for giggles, unlike back in your day. If you seriously don’t see a difference in attitudes toward nutrition and being in top physical shape, between the generations you’re describing, or recognize how drastically those things could affect how ‘hard’ they found boot camp to be, then I’m thinking you’re being willfully ignorant a little bit. And you earnestly can’t see how the difference between insolent draftees or volunteers would impact the program? Again, I don’t think you’re trying very hard, if that’s the case. Now you just sound like Grampa who walked ten miles, barefoot, in 3’ of snow, uphill both ways! “There, there, Gramps, we believe you, really we do!” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/36 "2013-04-23T14:30:27Z")
> [@stavechoker](#): > > Toof you failed your intelligence test with that reference to the movie full metal jacket. It has nothing to do with my post so keep on being the stupld son ot abitch your are and see who else you can lmpress. This might be an example of the real reason you got banned on the other forum. Edit: This point has already been made. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/37 "2013-04-23T15:52:26Z")
I didn’t go to Marine boot camp, but I did go to Navy OCS which was run by Marine DIs. I completed OCS approximately 11 years ago, and it was the toughest experience (physically) of my life. I was one of the fat-bodies that were singled out for extra attention. We certainly weren’t allowed to use our cell phones or any other electronics. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/38 "2013-04-23T16:01:37Z")
> [@](#): > > The first recruit to sign up at the Tun Tavern walked up the the table and was told if he signed up he would get a free shot of whiskey. > > The Second recruit walks up to the table and gets 2 free shots for his enlistment bonus. > > When the Second recruit tells the First recruit what his bonus was the First recruit tells him… > > “It wasn’t that way in the old corps” This seems to reflect a universal truth about the military. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/39 "2013-04-24T04:38:54Z")
tim-n-va, you very succinctly made the point I was going to make. Everyone’s boot camp experience was tougher than anyone’s who followed them. \*“It wasn’t that way in the old Roman Legion. Sharp pointed sticks? You were lucky! We would dream of having sharp pointed sticks.” \* ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458/40 "2013-04-24T05:11:24Z")
Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I’ll tell you something my lad. When you’re walking home tonight and some homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don’t come crying to me! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sad-state-of-marine-corp-boot-camp/656458.md?page=3)