# Saddam Captured: What now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931 "2003-12-14T11:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/101 "2003-12-15T00:27:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by r\_k \* > \*\*ATTENTION AMERICANS! > > Yes, Saddam has been captured. Yes, this is A Good Thing. > > But please… don’t use it as an excuse to go and re-elect Bush. Please, just promise the world that one little thing? Surely it’s not beyond the USA to come up with a president that has just a teensy bit of environmental and social conscience? \*\* Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/102 "2003-12-15T00:32:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\* > I’m sorry, I don’t think I can follow here what you are trying to bring across. What do you exactly mean by “if we play this right”. > Do you mean: "if the USA can sell it as “Al Qaeda only” ? > Sorry, but nobody is so stupid to buy this. > \*\* No, this is not what I mean. “What’d have to happen is, _ **that it would have to be** _, (and we’d have to be able to clearly show), that the only violence in Iraq was not the result of Iraqis seeking to expel invaders, but rather unwelcome terrorists engaging the US in Iraqis’ backyard.” I know that you’re not a native english speaker, so let me break this down a bit. There’re several ideas expressed in my statement. 1. It would have to be that the only violence in Iraq was not the result of Iraqis seeking to expel invaders. 2. It would have to be that the only violence in Iraq was rather unwelcome terrorists engaging the US in Iraqis’ backyard. 3. It would have to be that these two things could be clearly shown. What this would leave is one group of foreigners agitating another group of foreigners in Iraq in such a way that leads to the deaths and injuries of Iraqis, w/o any apparent benefit or redeeemable result of the agitation. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\* > Well, I think first of all that those who sympathise with AQ don’t even think about “the best interest of Arabs at large”. > They think about their own personal problems and their own society and country and what goes wrong there. > \*\* This may well be. I’ve merely extrapolated as to what would motivate me to be sympathetic w/ Qaeda. I’d have to believe that they were involved in activities geared toward the greater good. To speak specifically, it’s most likely that different people have different reasons for what they think and believe. I hope that this lights a chill-pill for you to smoke. If it does, I hope that you inhale deeply. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/103 "2003-12-15T00:33:04Z")
> [@](#): > > The question we should be asking now is, why isn’t the United States spending as much effort at getting Osama Bin Laden (you know, the guy who was actually responsible for those nasty 9/11 attacks) as they did for Saddam, especially considering that Saddam wasn’t a dire and imminent threat to the US? Do you have any evidence that they AREN’T expending as much effort? Because my understanding is that there are a whole lot of Americans looking for Osama. There’s a difference between Saddam and Osama - Saddam was dependent on a lot of people protecting and hiding him. He was moving around in populated areas. The chance of getting good intelligence on him or turning a close confidant made this a ‘hot pursuit’, with good chances of getting him. Plus, we knew that he was probably in Tikrit, which made the search area much smaller. Osama, on the other hand, has vanished off the radar. We’re not even sure which country he is in. He’s deep, deep undercover, with maybe only one or two people knowing where he is. He’s used to living in caves and hiding. Capturing Osama is a whole 'nuther level of problem than capturing Saddam, and Saddam managed to stay on the run for months. My understanding is that the U.S. is committing as many resources to capturing Osama as they can reasonably find jobs for. But there’s no point in just ‘getting more resources’ if you don’t have any leads for them to follow. What do you want to do, start a house-to-house search of Pakistan? Or get 100,000 soldiers to walk in a big line across the mountains of Afghanistan hoping to stumble across him? Besides, the resources required for the two missions were very different. Getting Saddam was a military operation - it involved kicking down doors, capturing close associates, staging raids on suspected locations, etc. Getting Osama is more of a CIA operation. They have to penetrate his suport network, turn some radicals, maybe bribe some warlords, etc. It’s the kind of work that is best done under the radar. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/104 "2003-12-15T00:34:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*The question we should be asking now is, why isn’t the United States spending as much effort at getting Osama Bin Laden (you know, the guy who was actually _responsible_ for those nasty 9/11 attacks) as they did for Saddam, especially considering that Saddam _wasn’t_ a dire and imminent threat to the US? \*\* The question we should _still_ be asking… ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/105 "2003-12-15T00:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > Do you have any evidence that they AREN’T expending as much effort? Because my understanding is that there are a whole lot of Americans looking for Osama. > \*\* Well, we have a majority of our troops engaged in the operations in Iraq. This leaves less than half to be devoted to Afghanistan. since there’s more than half on one hand and more than half on the other hand, it stands to reason that the one with more is greater than the one with less. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > Getting Osama is more of a CIA operation. They have to penetrate his suport network, turn some radicals, maybe bribe some warlords, etc. It’s the kind of work that is best done under the radar. > \*\* Some of the same resources are involved in each type of activity. Specifically the electronic intel gathering resources. There was actually concerned military types grumbling about this pre-invasion. I’m sure that this was covered several times in Iraq invasionm threads. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/106 "2003-12-15T01:00:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by r\_k \* > \*\*ATTENTION AMERICANS! > > Yes, Saddam has been captured. Yes, this is A Good Thing. > > But please… don’t use it as an excuse to go and re-elect Bush. Please, just promise the world that one little thing? Surely it’s not beyond the USA to come up with a president that has just a teensy bit of environmental and social conscience? \*\* SECONDED TOO… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/107 "2003-12-15T01:05:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Nearly half the U.S. intelligence and commando agents who had been in Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan were reassigned to Iraq starting last summer after the resistance began intensifying. The redeployment raised complaints in Washington that President Bush was easing the pressures on bin Laden. [http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special\_packages/iraq/7491402.htm](http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/7491402.htm) ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/108 "2003-12-15T01:10:24Z")
**Sam** : I would agree that getting Osama was more of a CIA operation. So was getting Saddam: the military may have arrested him, but it was from intelligence that they were able to do it. This kind of thing is all over the place, and the only way you wouldn’t have run across it is if you’re ignoring it deliberately: > [@](#): > > U.S. special forces are stationed across the border in Afghanistan with approximately 45 checkpoints should bin Laden head there, but authorities said there are many unfrequented routes and it is impossible to seal the entire border. > Special forces in Afghanistan, however, are not as specialized as they once were, Cannistraro told ABCNEWS. This specifically hurts the hunt because, he added, in order to deploy intelligence resources to collect information on bin Laden, the U.S. needs Arabic speakers. > “If you’ve drawn off many if not all of your Arabic language resources and sent them off to Iraq you’re shorthanded in terms of dealing with intelligence collection problem of fixing bin Laden’s location,” said Cannistraro. “So there are fewer resources to deal with in trying to basically find and capture, the principal leader of a terrorist organization that’s killing Americans.” From [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/sept11\_OBL\_030908.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/sept11_OBL_030908.html) a link provided by **Airman** over in the Pit. I’m happy for the Iraqi people, but I’m not an Iraqi. I wasn’t threatened by him, and I was completely indifferent to whether he continued to rule Iraq. I was and still am directly threatened by OBL, and I deeply resent this BS that finding Saddam didn’t hurt the hunt for OBL, because it so obviously did. Any statement to the contrary is factless and ideologically driven. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/109 "2003-12-15T01:10:42Z")
funny when we ask for dna reprts they takes weeks. Blair asks for one it takes minutes ??? ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/110 "2003-12-15T01:18:33Z")
I think we should be more worried about Musharaf’s close call with a bomb… if he dies and some sort of islamic wacko takes over… he will have nukes. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south\_asia/3318449.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3318449.stm) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/111 "2003-12-15T01:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Squink wrote: > John, the end of even an illegal war is a good thing. > Anything, within reason, that hastens that is a good thing. > Saddam’s capture removes an obstacle to the stabilization of Iraq. > That makes it a good thing, regardless of the legality of the war. > Is that simple enough for you? I’m not asking for simplicity. I’m asking for consistency. The question at hand is not whether or not this is a good thing, but whether it’s a legal thing. If you claimed the war was illegal (and I don’t know whether you did or not), tell me how the capture of Saddam is legal. Perhaps the question itself was too “simple” to understand.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/112 "2003-12-15T01:27:54Z")
I have a feeling Saddam will never make it to trial. I think within a few weeks he’ll turn up dead from “suicide”. Of course, I don’t think it will be suicide at all. If he starts blabbing his mouth about how much the USA helped him in the past, it will look very bad for the USA. The last thing the US needs right now is someone saying “yeah I did that stuff with weapons bought with money the USA gave me to buy weapons.” I think the USA will shut him up by either allowing him to kill himself or helping him kill himself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/113 "2003-12-15T02:10:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Seven wrote: > I have a feeling Saddam will never make it to trial. I think within a few weeks he’ll turn up dead from “suicide”. Of course, I don’t think it will be suicide at all. > > I think the USA will shut him up by either allowing him to kill himself or helping him kill himself. Wanna make a gentleman’s wager on that? It an’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/114 "2003-12-15T02:11:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _John Mace said:_ > The question at hand is not whether or not this is a good thing, but whether it’s a legal thing. If you claimed the war was illegal (and I don’t know whether you did or not), tell me how the capture of Saddam is legal. Perhaps the question itself was too “simple” to understand Didn’t **RTFirefly** answer that (simply enough)? The war was illegal because it was not UN sanctioned. Since that time the UN has accepted and formalized the status quo with [UNSC resolution 1483](http://www.casi.org.uk/info/undocs/scres/2003/res1483.pdf) affirming the US as occupying power in Iraq, so legal arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/115 "2003-12-15T02:21:05Z")
Regarding whether Saddam has been actively directing the insurgents. I asserted that it is clear he could not have been. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\*I think that’s still very much an unknown. I think we’ll find out, one way or the other, over the next couple of months. \*\* Indeed you are right. But I don’t see how he could have been directing anything while hiding that dank whole this entire time. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/116 "2003-12-15T02:31:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by r\_k \* > \*\*ATTENTION AMERICANS! > > Yes, Saddam has been captured. Yes, this is A Good Thing. \*\* It’s a very good thing indeed for the Iraqi people, provided they get the real opportunity to deal with him themselves. It’ll give Bush a popularity boost he does not deserve. Not a good thing in that sense. For the security of the U.S. itself, it is irrelevant. Saddam has never been a direct threat to the security of the U.S., and since the beginning of the recent gulf war, he potency has been effectively neutralized. > [@](#): > > \*\* > But please… don’t use it as an excuse to go and re-elect Bush. Please, just promise the world that one little thing? Surely it’s not beyond the USA to come up with a president that has just a teensy bit of environmental and social conscience? \*\* I’m with you all the way. I promise I’ll be doing everything I can to help make sure Bush II’s regime comes to an end with the next election. Bush’s unilateral/“yer with us or yer agin us”/“bring 'em on” foreign policy is a serious threat to world peace. Many of us here in the U.S. have not forgotten this, and we will be working hard to make sure that all but the most blinded Bush-asskissers don’t forget this, either. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/117 "2003-12-15T02:33:36Z")
Crapola. Make that “dank _hole_.” ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/118 "2003-12-15T02:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Knorf \* > \*\*Regarding whether Saddam has been actively directing the insurgents. I asserted that it is clear he could not have been. > > Indeed you are right. But I don’t see how he could have been directing anything while hiding that dank whole this entire time. \*\* -You do know, of course, that Saddam wasn’t hiding in that “spider hole” the whole nine months, right? That’s a “last ditch” hiding place, a bolt-hole to jump into if/when the hut/house itself got raided. Similar to how a druggie might hide in the crawl space when the police come to raid his meth lab. I’m not saying he _was_, but he could have _easily_ been “out and about” doing whatever, since the start of the war. One other unrelated point: we know Saddam and co. hauled off nearly a billion dollars from the bank- three _semi-truck loads_- at the beginning. Where’s the rest of the loot? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/119 "2003-12-15T02:58:09Z")
The term [spider hole](http://virtualdoug.typepad.com/photos/viet_nam_today_for_vets/2003cuchispiderhole.html) seems to have its origins in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931/120 "2003-12-15T03:22:32Z")
Well, I for one am happy that Saddam Bin Laden has finally been captured. We no longer have to worry about him sending the Kurds on a suicide mission to fly airplanes filled with VX gas into our tallest buildings. The War on Terror is at an end! Can I vote for Bush yet? I don’t think I can wait until next November! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-captured-what-now/218931.md?page=7)