# Saddam... dead or alive? (After the strike on the bunker) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040 "2003-03-21T05:42:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/1 "2003-03-21T05:42:54Z")
(First, I figured this would belong here in GD… please forgive me, and bump it to the correct forum if not.) So, what does everyone think about Saddam after the US strike on the bunker, Wednesday night (Thursday morning)? After watching the video of Saddam speaking, following the attack, I am very torn over what I think. I am really not sure if it was him giving that speech, or not. Here are some things I noticed, and am wondering if anyone else noticed the same, or can debunk these things: 1. I thought it was kind of “out of the ordinary” for Saddam to be reading his speech from a paper, or card. I don’t really remember him doing something like that before. This is just something that seemed weird to me. 2. As far as looks go, it looks (almost) exactly like Saddam. Something seemed kind of odd about his appearance, but I can’t really pinpoint what it is. Something I noticed, though, was with the Saddam who was giving the post-strike speech: It looked like the right side of his mouth kind of “drooped” a little bit (that is, hung a little bit lower than the left side) whenever he opened his mouth to speak. I can’t tell if Saddam’s mouth does this in the video where we claim it is the “real” Saddam. Anyway, those are just some things I noticed… can’t think of anything else offhand. How about anyone else? LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Calliope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Calliope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calliope)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/2 "2003-03-21T05:46:35Z")
I thought he looked quite a bit older than usual and “not quite right”, too. But maybe that’s what he looks like when deprived of sleep. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/3 "2003-03-21T05:56:20Z")
First I want to know where “Saddam” got those big a$$ glasses!! Those were cool in a retro sort of way. As far as the face hiding behind those giant glasses - right. He looked “Saddamish” ---- or “Saddam like,” but not quite like Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/4 "2003-03-21T06:05:12Z")
**Calliope** > [@](#): > > But maybe that’s what he looks like when deprived of sleep. I agree… I was wondering how much that would play into it. **Tigers2B1** > [@](#): > > I want to know where “Saddam” got those big a$$ glasses!! I am glad I wasn’t the only one thinking this! 🙂 Maybe they’re just reading glasses, he was using for reading off of the paper… really Really _thick_ reading glasses. LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/5 "2003-03-21T06:08:27Z")
Here’s what the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A682-2003Mar20.html) is saying. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/6 "2003-03-21T06:18:05Z")
AFAICR and from several sources: The footage showed an impromptu speech, no prompter, I think it was mentioned before that Saddam usually uses contacts, appearing with glasses would fit a picture of a guy on the run that had barely escaped a strike. If he is still alive, I think he is scared shitless and running around without communications, which is one of the reasons why there is no apparent leadership now. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/7 "2003-03-21T06:26:58Z")
If he did pre-record, it begs the question of why everything was so sloppy and disheveled, with the crazy glasses and notebook. But then, he didn’t seem like he has just escaped a bomb attack either. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/8 "2003-03-21T06:29:05Z")
Good call, **GIGObuster**. All of that would make sense to me. How about the “lower hanging” right side of Saddam’s mouth, when he was making the most recent speech…? Has anyone else noticed this, or have I completely lost it now? LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/9 "2003-03-21T06:44:57Z")
According to his ex-mistress Saddam suffered a stroke a few years ago and was very good at hiding the impairments that resulted. Perhaps stress, fatigue, and other factors…perhaps another stroke has aggravated these symptoms. I haven’t seen a good picture of the tape yet. Look at his ears in comparison with a real picture of Saddam. That is a pretty good way of identifying a person that most peole don’t usually notice. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/10 "2003-03-21T06:48:30Z")
Thanks for the info, **t-keela**. Next time I watch the video, I will try to compare the ears of the two men. 🙂 LilShieste ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/11 "2003-03-21T06:51:46Z")
Something to consider. At this point, with the U.S. saying that it isn’t sure if Saddam is dead or not, and thus holding off on the major assault, doesn’t Saddam have an incentive to stay quiet? Or even to have some of his lead guys pretend to surrender? I mean, the longer they can hold out, in their minds, the better. They’d much rather have U.S. ground troops reach their positions so they can fight conventionally rather than simply being laid waste from above. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/12 "2003-03-21T06:54:13Z")
Sure. I’ll bet this is a tough call. The administration has to weigh all the intelligence it’s getting, and decide if the possibility of ending the war without a major bombardment is worth the added risk to the troops. That’s why Bush and Rumsfeld and Tenet earn the big bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/13 "2003-03-21T07:03:24Z")
MSNBC is now saying that the administration knew BEFORE the attack on Saddam that he had been recording statements to be used after the deadline. Boy, if that’s true, then I’d put pretty high odds on Saddam being dead or injured. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/14 "2003-03-21T07:04:27Z")
…And if they knew that, they must have some incredibly good intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/15 "2003-03-21T07:10:15Z")
It makes sense that he would have a large number of pre-recorded statements as a man on the run or in hiding might find it impossible to stop for a camera. If he is dead, these pre-recorded statements could temporarily prop up the regime and confuse the enemies of the regime long enough for his sons to secure power for themselves. Sadam inherited his position from his father and it would seem that his sons are the heirs to his empire. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/16 "2003-03-21T10:51:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Feynn \* > Sadam inherited his position from his father Uh, no, he didn’t. He helped lead a revolt in 1968 that brought the Baath Party to power under General Ahmed Hassan Bakr, with Saddam as “Vice-Chairman of the Revolutionary Command Council”. Then in 1979 he deposed Ahmed and assumed the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/17 "2003-03-21T13:35:10Z")
One of the more interesting things I read (which I can’t find now, but I think it was in the WSJ. If someone can find the link, I would be most appreciative) is that the US smoked out Sadaam’s location with the whole Traiq Aziz is defecting story. That brought Tariq into the public eye at his press conference. Then, follow Tariq to whereever he is going and you most likely have found Sadaam. ---
**Author:** ![Mullinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@Mullinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mullinator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/18 "2003-03-21T13:36:52Z")
Ah, found it. It is an artice from the Scottish Daily Record, referenced in the Wall Street Journal. The article can be found [here.](http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/page.cfm?objectid=12756678&method=full&siteid=89488) ---
**Author:** ![Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ed655f/32.png) [@Crown\_Prince\_of\_Irony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crown_Prince_of_Irony)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/19 "2003-03-21T16:06:10Z")
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that the notebook SH was reading from wasn’t brand new. A few minutes and a few pages into his speech, he switches to a different notebook. The type of notebook he was using (top-bound, 8 1/2x11) usually has 50 pages. Anyone remember how many pages he flipped through before switching notebooks? 5? 10? I know it wasn’t 50. One can presume that the first 40-odd pages of the first notebook were already used, most likely for other speeches. This, along with the lack of SH’s typical apocalyptic rhetoric, and the relatively calm delivery of the speech, would seem to support the idea that Saddam taped multiple messages in advance - which one to be aired depending on the contingency. Just my $.02. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040/20 "2003-03-21T16:15:22Z")
I just had an idea-those of you who have done psy-ops please comment! We get an actor who looks like Saddam, and put him on TV-broadcast to the Iraqi people. The stand-in will give a speech accepting surrender, and will urge his army to stop hostilities! This would be a cheap way to end the conflict! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddam-dead-or-alive-after-the-strike-on-the-bunker/163040.md?page=2)