# Saddam's link to terrorism **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 16, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417 "2003-12-16T23:13:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/1 "2003-12-16T23:13:34Z")
Saddam’s link to Palestinian terrorism is well known. [Cite.](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/2/9/200733.shtml) Is [this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F14%2Fwterr114.xml) the killer link between Saddam and Al Qaeda? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/2 "2003-12-16T23:40:18Z")
Off hand I’d say no. At least not from the conclusions drawn by the article. I must admit that when the article referenced the already proved bogus Niger/Uranium claim as an actual event, I went no further. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/3 "2003-12-16T23:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by qts \* > \*\*Saddam’s link to Palestinian terrorism is well known. [Cite.](http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/2/9/200733.shtml) Is [this](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F14%2Fwterr114.xml) the killer link between Saddam and Al Qaeda? \*\* If all of the super-secret documents the Telegraph -and only the Telegraph- gets their hands on were killer links, they would long be the only newspaper of any reputation in the UK by now. Unfortunately, most of the time, these super-secret documents turn out to be wishful thinking ignored by practically anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/4 "2003-12-17T00:03:12Z")
Too early to tell. And by itself, even if its totally authentic, its not enough to be a ‘killer link’ IMO. -XT ---
**Author:** ![YourOldBuddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/bc79bd/32.png) [@YourOldBuddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YourOldBuddy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/5 "2003-12-17T00:12:11Z")
On the subject of the first article. Is NewsMax a source that is generally accepted here as reputable? On the subject of the second article. It tries hard to make a link between Abu Nidal and Atta over the objection of the FBI, CIA, the Check security agency and MI6. Its sources are papers found and freely interpreted by nameless Iraqi officials. The link between Abu Nidal and SH is then tenous at best. Neither article cuts it for me. Color me unimpressed. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/6 "2003-12-17T00:19:52Z")
I read that Telegraph link a few days ago and posted it here, but with a \*heavy caveat around it. There have been tons of these ‘smoking guns’ that turned out to be shooting blanks. A couple of things interesting to note, however: First, is that this document comes by way of the Iraqi Governing Council, and they are saying it’s authentic. That raises the stakes a bit, because if it’s not authentic it’s a forgery (as opposed to being just mistaken intelligence). The other interesting thing is that it names names, and not just shadowy figures. That also raises the stakes, assuming the intelligence officer involved is still alive. So this document bears watching. IF it turns out to be authentic, then yes this would be a smoking gun. A document written to Saddam saying that Mohammed Atta is well trained and ‘ready to destroy the targets we have chosen’? How much more pat can you get? This, of course, makes the document even more suspicious. Rarely do you find documents that confirm such events this well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/7 "2003-12-17T00:38:04Z")
Well, if **Sam** isn’t having any… ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/8 "2003-12-17T00:38:12Z")
Well, yes, but rarely do you launch an investigation into terrorism which includes vompletely overthrowing 2 governemnts. I’m not sure how careful SH would have been with memos he though were only being seen by confidants. The link does appear “too good to believe”, however. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/9 "2003-12-17T02:07:45Z")
Let’s wait and see. A lot of folks are gonna be jumping at every “HERE’S THE LINK!” report that comes down the pike, just as there were a lot of premature ejaculations about initial WMD “findings” in the weeks just after the Five-Minute War. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/10 "2003-12-17T02:49:32Z")
It’s going to be tough to verify something like this. Just imagine: > [@](#): > > Dear Osama: > > May Allah the Merciful bless you. > > How are the wives and kids? I’ve been thinking about our mutual enemy-- you know, The Great Satan (wink). Well, they’re coming after me now and I find myself in the need of gaining expertise in hiding in caves. Can you help me out on this? If you could be so kind as to send me a cave expert or two I’ve got some nice Ublyou-day Em-hay Ee-days I can spare for your trouble. > > Oh yeah, and don’t worry about that kidney. I’ll have Uday be careful the next time he offs someone, and we’ll have a freshy sent to you ASAAP (As Soon As Allah Permits). > > Salam, my bruthuh! > > You-know-who. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/11 "2003-12-17T02:58:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Iraqi officials believe this is a reference to the controversial shipments of uranium ore Iraq acquired from Niger to aid Saddam in his efforts to develop an atom bomb, although there is no explicit reference in the document to this. > > Habbush writes that the successful completion of the shipment was “the fruit of your excellent secret meeting with Bashir al-Asad (the Syrian president) on the Iraqi-Syrian border”, and concludes: “May God protect you and save you to all Arab nations.” > > While it is almost impossible to ascertain whether or not the document is legitimate or a clever fake, Iraqi officials working for the interim government are convinced of its authenticity, even though they decline to reveal where and how they obtained it. “It is not important how we found it,” said a senior Iraqi security official. “The important thing is that we did find it and the information it contains.” Not important how we found it? Riiiiight. And there, once again, the discredited Niger nuclear shipment. I do wonder where those officials in the interim government are getting those bits of “info”. Probably from the same sources that gave us this war in the first place? Until other sources, than the Telegraph, do appear, I will not think this is even interesting. The Telegraph also does have a history of getting deceived (?) in Iraq before: > **[Galloway papers deemed forgeries](https://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0620/p01s03-woiq.html)** > > Iraq experts, ink-aging tests discredit documents behind earlier Monitor story. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/12 "2003-12-17T03:32:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Iraqi officials believe… I believe Dr Ahmad Chalabi is currently an Iraqi official. Such vagueness detracts from the story’s credibility when there are known liars amongst the cited group. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/13 "2003-12-17T05:18:25Z")
Any report of a link has some value as news. Intelligence agencies are the pros whe it comes to evaluating reports of links. If the CIA gets their panties in a wad over a report, then the report prob’ly holds water. [Fishing around for reports w/o sufficient concern for the quality of vetting the info receives](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=199309) is what was used to sell the war. FWIW, the State Dept has a list of Iraq’s terrorist ties ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/14 "2003-12-17T05:21:12Z")
[http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2000/2441.htm](http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2000/2441.htm) **Iraq** Iraq planned and sponsored international terrorism in 2000. Although Baghdad focused on antidissident activity overseas, the regime continued to support various terrorist groups. The regime has not attempted an anti-Western terrorist attack since its failed plot to assassinate former President Bush in 1993 in Kuwait. Czech police continued to provide protection to the Prague office of the US Government-funded Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL), which produces Radio Free Iraq programs and employs expatriate journalists. The police presence was augmented in 1999, following reports that the Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) might retaliate against RFE/RL for broadcasts critical of the Iraqi regime. To intimidate or silence Iraqi opponents of the regime living overseas, the IIS reportedly opened several new stations in foreign capitals during 2000. Various opposition groups joined in warning Iraqi dissidents abroad against newly established “expatriates’ associations,” which, they asserted, are IIS front organizations. Opposition leaders in London contended that the IIS had dispatched women agents to infiltrate their ranks and was targeting dissidents for assassination. In Germany, an Iraqi opposition figure denounced the IIS for murdering his son, who had recently left Iraq to join him abroad. Dr. Ayad `Allawi, Secretary General of the Iraqi National Accord, an opposition group, stated that relatives of dissidents living abroad are often arrested and jailed to intimidate activists overseas. In northern Iraq, Iraqi agents reportedly killed a locally well-known religious personality who declined to echo the regime line. The regional security director in As Sulaymaniyah stated that Iraqi operatives were responsible for the car-bomb explosion that injured a score of passersby. Officials of the Iraqi Communist Party asserted that an attack on a provincial party headquarters had been thwarted when party security officers shot and wounded a terrorist employed by the IIS. Baghdad continued to denounce and delegitimize UN personnel working in Iraq, particularly UN de-mining teams, in the wake of the killing in 1999 of an expatriate UN de-mining worker in northern Iraq under circumstances suggesting regime involvement. An Iraqi who opened fire at the UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) office in Baghdad, killing two persons and wounding six, was permitted to hold a heavily publicized press conference at which he contended that his action had been motivated by the harshness of UN sanctions, which the regime regularly excoriates. The Iraqi regime rebuffed a request from Riyadh for the extradition of two Saudis who had hijacked a Saudi Arabian Airlines flight to Baghdad, but did return promptly the passengers and the aircraft. Disregarding its obligations under international law, the regime granted political asylum to the hijackers and gave them ample opportunity to ventilate in the Iraqi Government-controlled and international media their criticisms of alleged abuses by the Saudi Arabian Government, echoing an Iraqi propaganda theme. While the origins of the FAO attack and the hijacking were unclear, the Iraqi regime readily exploited these terrorist acts to further its policy objectives. Several expatriate terrorist groups continued to maintain offices in Baghdad, including the Arab Liberation Front, the inactive 15 May Organization, the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), and the Abu Nidal organization (ANO). PLF leader Abu `Abbas appeared on state-controlled television in the fall to praise Iraq’s leadership in rallying Arab opposition to Israeli violence against Palestinians. The ANO threatened to attack Austrian interests unless several million dollars in a frozen ANO account in a Vienna bank were turned over to the group. The Iraq-supported Iranian terrorist group, Mujahedin-e Khalq (MEK), regularly claimed responsibility for armed incursions into Iran that targeted police and military outposts, as well as for mortar and bomb attacks on security organization headquarters in various Iranian cities. MEK publicists reported that in March group members killed an Iranian colonel having intelligence responsibilities. An MEK claim to have wounded a general was denied by the Iranian Government. The Iraqi regime deployed MEK forces against its domestic opponents. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/15 "2003-12-17T08:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by YourOldBuddy \* > On the subject of the first article. Is NewsMax a source that is generally accepted here as reputable? Only if you’re the kind of person who wears tinfoil hats to block the homosexual-inducing mind-control beams beaming out of your TV set from the secret lesbian Hollywood liberal media cabal. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/16 "2003-12-18T01:40:23Z")
The “killer” link is being killed: [http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3741646&p1=0](http://msnbc.msn.com/Default.aspx?id=3741646&p1=0) > [@](#): > > Coughlin’s account was picked up by newspapers around the world and was cited the next day by New York Times columnist William Safire. But U.S. officials and a leading Iraqi document expert tell NEWSWEEK that the document is most likely a forgery—part of a thriving new trade in dubious Iraqi documents that has cropped up in the wake of the collapse of Saddam’s regime. > > “It’s a lucrative business,” says Hassan Mneimneh, codirector of an Iraqi exile research group reviewing millions of captured Iraqi government documents. “There’s an active document trade taking place … You have fraudulent documents that are being fabricated and sold” for hundreds of dollars a piece. > > [snip] > > The Telegraph story was apparently written with a political purpose: to bolster Bush administration claims of a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam’s regime. The paper described a “handwritten memo” that was supposedly sent to Saddam Hussein by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, chief of Iraqi intelligence at the time. It describes a three-day “work program” that Atta had undertaken in Baghdad under the tutelage of notorious Palestinian terrorist Abu Nidal, who lived in the Iraqi capital until his death under suspicious circumstances in August 2002. > > [snip] > > The problem with this, say U.S. law enforcement officials, is that the FBI has compiled a highly detailed time line for Atta’s movements throughout the spring and summer of 2001 based on a mountain of documentary evidence, including airline records, ATM withdrawals and hotel receipts. Those records show Atta crisscrossing the United States during this period—making only one overseas trip, an 11-day visit to Spain that didn’t begin until six days after the date of the Iraqi memo. > > [snip] > > Mneimneh says the wording of the document makes him highly suspicious: Iraqi intelligence officials were notoriously conservative and rarely—if ever—put incriminating information in writing. The reference to the Iraqi intelligence working with a “small team from the Al Qaeda organization” is “too explicit,” he says. > > Ironically, even the Iraqi National Congress of Ahmed Chalabi, which has been vocal in claiming ties between Al Qaeda and Saddam’s regime, was dismissive of the new Telegraph story. “The memo is clearly nonsense,” an INC spokesman told NEWSWEEK. > > Contacted by Newsweek, The Sunday Telegraph’s Con Coughlin acknowledged that he could not prove the authenticity of the document. He said that while he got the memo about Mohammed Atta and Baghdad from a “senior” member of the Iraqi Governing Council who insisted it was “genuine,” he and his newspaper had “no way of verifying it. It’s our job as journalists to air these things and see what happens,” he said. Coughlin, you ignorant media slut! The job of a journalist is to verify before reporting something, what you just described is in reality what a propagandist does! Of course, as I see how many were mislead by that tale, I don’t know what is sadder: the right wing media behavior or the behavior of the ones who believed on it, when they continue to trust those same sources. Oh yeah, William Safire also showed once again what a tool he is! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/17 "2003-12-18T04:12:11Z")
Damn! Just another case of coitus interruptus while reading republican porn! ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/18 "2003-12-18T06:12:22Z")
Aww, shoot. I was just about to turn in my Liberal Card. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/19 "2003-12-18T06:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > Aww, shoot. I was just about to turn in my Liberal Card. Don’t put it back in your wallet just yet. **This** could be the real thing: [Iraq laboratories hidden: Blair](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/12/17/1071336987777.html) It certainly appears all smokey and gun-like. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417/20 "2003-12-18T06:46:50Z")
keep looking… > [@](#): > > He referred to an announcement in October by the US-led Iraq Survey Group, which said it had found a clandestine network of biological laboratories in Iraq. But it said no hard evidence of biological, chemical or nuclear weapons was found. > [@](#): > > “I don’t think it’s surprising we will have to look for them,” Blair said in a separate interview with the British Broadcasting Corp’s Arabic service. "That he had them is beyond doubt. He used them against Iran, he used them against his own people. > > “I’m confident that when the Iraq Survey Group has done its work we will find what’s happened to those weapons because that he had them … there is no doubt.” I think Blair is learning the misleading tactics of Dubya. What he is saying is based in old information, we already know that Saddam had them before, all the evidence found so far still points to the weapons being disposed at the end of gulf war 1, the possible presence of programs (it remains a good bet) still shoots down that “attack in 45 minutes” lie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saddams-link-to-terrorism/219417.md?page=2)