# "Safety features" that impede functionality **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 1, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955 "2011-06-01T14:13:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/41 "2011-06-02T12:40:41Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Because I opened with 1 functionality, east then called 2 safety, but south went for game with 4 functionality. You’ve got to pay attention during the bidding stage of these threads. So did south make contract? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/42 "2011-06-02T12:44:14Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Because if your safety features impede functionality, people disable them. > > This thread is my cite. > > That’s not to say things shouldn’t be made as safe as possible, just that there’s a line of…diminishing returns isn’t quite the word I’m looking for here. If we imagine safety as a range from 1-10, and functionality is inversely correlated, then most people would be okay with something that’s a 2 on safety and an 8 on functionality. Many people would be okay with something that’s a 4 on safety and a 6 on functionality. There’s a point, though, where people get so frustrated with the diminished functionality that they intentionally subvert the safety. So your 8-safe, 2-functional piece of equipment will suddenly be converted into a 0-safe piece of equipment. If you had made it a 4-safe, it would have remained a 4-safe. > > It’s a point lawyers and engineers wrangle over constantly. If you make it too safe, your customers will make it far less safe, but at least if they sue you, you can point out that they voided your warranty and made unauthorized, unsafe modifications to the item. Product liability law is not my forté, but I wonder if you haven’t articulated a new line of attack: “Your Honor, the manufacturer negligently made their product TOO safe, when they knew or should have known that this would invite their customers to disable their safety features completely.” ---
**Author:** ![2gigch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/2gigch1/32/3313_2.png) [@2gigch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2gigch1)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/43 "2011-06-02T12:46:47Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > Yes, but every push mower I’ve ever used also has the option to set the damn thing into neutral. So, you know, it doesn’t move forward. > > I also–back when I had a lawn to mow–used to use a strap to keep it running. I’ve never had an electric starter, and my right shoulder is shit. Starting a mower with a pull-cord is something I’ve never gotten the hang of. Doing so usually means a couple of days of pain. Doing so repeatedly increases the intensity. > > That being said, I understand why it’s there. I bought a Troy Bilt push mower with electric start. My wife wants to mow but pull starting is real painful for her. Best damn money I have ever spent on a mower - $300 on sale at Lowes last year. A positive joy to use. It has the usual safety features. I have not bothered to disable any since with a quick twist of the key it comes right back on. Now if we could get one that vaporizes clippings instead of bags them I would be golden, but that hasn’t hit the shelves yet. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/44 "2011-06-02T12:51:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So did south make contract? Tragically, no. Two tricks were all it took to show the problem with his radical card-table-saw hybrid. Memorial service is next Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/45 "2011-06-02T12:57:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Product liability law is not my forté, but I wonder if you haven’t articulated a new line of attack: > > “Your Honor, the manufacturer negligently made their product TOO safe, when they knew or should have known that this would invite their customers to disable their safety features completely.” :smack: Oh hai. Is this the dark side? Do you have cookies? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/46 "2011-06-02T12:59:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > These are people you feel comfortable leaving your son with? Little known fact: A man with one hand bandaged up is 50 percent less likely to molest your kid. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/47 "2011-06-02T13:07:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Product liability law is not my forté, but I wonder if you haven’t articulated a new line of attack: > > “Your Honor, the manufacturer negligently made their product TOO safe, when they knew or should have known that this would invite their customers to disable their safety features completely.” Seems reasonable. In IT security it’s accepted that if you make security methods too convoluted, users will bypass them (long passwords will be written on post-it notes on the side of a monitor, users will share logins, etc) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/48 "2011-06-02T13:28:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why should functionality trump safety? Is \*\*THIS \*\*a serious question? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/49 "2011-06-02T13:34:08Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Is \*\*THIS \*\*a serious question? Absolutely. Most people do not disable safety features. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/50 "2011-06-02T13:41:52Z")
Try a car that goes “bing bing bing” when you exceed the maximum speed limit of the country you’re in. Observed in Japan and Singapore - and in Japan it was the maximum _highway_ speed so if you were on the freeway it went off constantly. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/51 "2011-06-02T13:54:15Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > But why have safety features that impede function? ☹ > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why should functionality trump safety? > [@Gatopescado](#): > > Is \*\*THIS \*\*a serious question? Think about **kayaker** ’s question for another minute, **Gato**. The purpose of a “safety feature” on a tool or device is to prevent a specific scenario the manufacturer has identified as likely to result in accidental injurious use of the equipment. What distinguishes such a feature from a warning label or operational indicator is that it actively or passively limits one or more specific aspects of the functionality of the equipment. This is tautological. The injury scenario being mitigated by the safety feature is consequential to the functionality of the equipment being [mis]used by the operator. There are certainly cases where safety features are poorly engineered or overly restrictive, but it’s missing the point entirely to complain that a safety feature impedes function. Of course it does. It’s quite deliberately _meant_ to do so. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/52 "2011-06-02T13:55:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Why should functionality trump safety? (BTW, great user name/post;)) Because I can objectively analyze my ability to use an item safely? My chainsaw is a perfect example. I have to cut up a fallen tree several times every year. I know a guy who screwed up using a chainsaw, and who died before anyone knew there was a problem. I am uber cautious with my Stihl, yet I have received an injury (I gouged my thumb while putting on a new chain. The damn saw wasn’t even running). Each time I use the saw, I first analyze the situation. Maybe one time in ten I’ll realize that I am getting in over my head and call a pro to do it. I mow about two acres of yard each week. I also mow 40 acres of horse pasture twice yearly. I am comfortable doing these chores. It would be easier to mow the horse pastures across the slight slope, yet I go up and down to avoid rollover. Sure, there are people who cut off fingers _putting their fucking hands near the spinning blade for fuck’s sake!_ These are people who should pay someone to cut their grass. Yet the person they pay has to deal with over done safety “features”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/53 "2011-06-02T13:56:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Absolutely. Most people do not disable safety features. Seriously? Everyone I know disables the dead man switch on their push mower. Everyone. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/54 "2011-06-02T14:18:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Because I can objectively analyze my ability to use an item safely? At the risk of seeming condescending or pompous, I’m going to disagree with that claim. My cite is your admission that you disable the deadman’s switch on your lawnmower so that you can leave it running while you clear obstructions from its path. I know you don’t agree that this disqualifies you as a rational and objective analyst, but perhaps I can persuade you or others to change your perspectives. Ever considered walking the area to be mowed prior to the job? Nothing about the construction of your machine would prevent that. Same thing with setting up for use of a table saw, or for loading, carrying and firing a weapon, or for driving a car. Bottom line is, if common safety features are such nuisances they disrupt your ability to do a job, you’ might not be doing the job as cleverly as you think you are. Check your processes, do the necessary prep work on your tools and work surfaces and materials and you might actually find those guards and interlocks much less problematic. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/55 "2011-06-02T14:23:14Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Seriously? Everyone I know disables the dead man switch on their push mower. Everyone. I don’t, and I don’t know anyone who does. So we are back to square one. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/56 "2011-06-02T14:32:06Z")
Another vote for no way I would disable the deadman switch on the mower. I can’t comment on anyone else because I can’t recall ever having a conversation with someone about their lawnmower prior to this thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/57 "2011-06-02T14:37:02Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Ever considered walking the area to be mowed prior to the job? Nothing about the construction of your machine would prevent that. Same thing with setting up for use of a table saw, or for loading, carrying and firing a weapon, or for driving a car. I do. Yet I cannot accurately predict things yet to occur. Like one of the dogs taking a huge dump while I mow. So I need to get the poop scooper and pick it up. But I’d rather leave the mower running while I do this thirty second task. I do not own a table saw, but if I did it would be one with safety features intact, even if I had to pay extra. See, I have little to no experience operating a table saw. “Driving” a car, I’m referring to hooking up a boat trailer parked on my property. I back the truck up in the general direction of the trailer and hop out to check position. Back in, pull forward and to the left a few feet, hop back out and look. Back up slowly a foot, hop out. Back in, back up six inches and slightly to the right, hop out. Back in. . .etc. Fuck if I’m putting my seat belt on/off each time while never having my speed register on the speedometer. So I keep an old male end of a seatbelt in the truck just for this purpose, or I disengage the buzzer. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/58 "2011-06-02T14:39:05Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Another vote for no way I would disable the deadman switch on the mower. I can’t comment on anyone else because I can’t recall ever having a conversation with someone about their lawnmower prior to this thread 🙂 I stopped the other day to ask a neighbor a question. He was mowing. He unhooked _his_ safety work-around, which was a piece of twist-tie material. I told him I use a bungee cord. We talked about this. Then, I had to disable the seat interlock on the tractor, and that led to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/59 "2011-06-02T14:40:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Seriously? Everyone I know disables the dead man switch on their push mower. Everyone. I didn’t. Partially because it’s the only way to turn off the mower, short of wrestling the hot wire off the spark plug. Partially because I have a reasonably steep hill to cut, and there’s a non-zero possibility I’ll slip while doing it, and I’m really happy the mower will stop if I do slip. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955/60 "2011-06-02T15:22:56Z")
I work at a safety agency, and although I am not a safety engineer, I see a LOT of accident reports and other safety documents, including ones on safety theory. Safety features which contribute to accidents are a known concern. Sometimes the issue is the one identified in this thread – that people deliberately disable the safety feature (usually to _save time_, not really “improve functionality”). But there are other ways in which supposed safety features can contribute to accidents. One classic way is by adding complication…for example, an audible warning alarm going off is good in theory, but _30 different audible alarms_ going off during a given crisis will not help the operator(s) figure out what’s wrong, let alone help them stay remain calm and focused. Still, it’s almost always a bad idea to disable a mechanical safety interlock. And “confidence that you are smarter than the people it was designed to protect” is not necessarily an indicator _your_ accident report won’t cross my desk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-features-that-impede-functionality/583955.md?page=4)