# Safety of paternoster elevators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680 "2014-06-26T08:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/1 "2014-06-26T08:45:47Z")
Anyone ever ridden in a [paternoster elevator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster)? Extremely cool, but they are rare in the UK nowadays. They seem to be of an age where health and safety considerations were not as prominent in the workplace. My question is whether this concern over paternoster H&S is merited - there seems to be plenty of scope for horrific injury if you tripped, say, on stepping in. Was this the case? Dangle a leg out and that’s the last you’d see of it? I would guess a modern paternoster could be built with appropriate sensors to stop the lift mechanism in the event of stray limbs? The one time I used one (20 + years ago) these sort of features were not evident, but perhaps they were there. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/2 "2014-06-26T09:38:10Z")
I went to De Montfort Uni in Leicester when they still had a paternoster. The building (James Went) had 10 floors. Great fun, and efficient. Of course they don’t move as fast as a regular elevator, but that’s easily outweighed by the never having to wait factor. What’s ironic is that we used to scare freshers (students that had just arrived) with various urban legends about the lifts; that if you didn’t get off at the top floor you’d end up getting chewed by the mechanism, or that the lift turned upside-down at the top. Meanwhile, the more you used the paternoster, the more confident you became. Plenty of times I’d hop up or jump down into a cabin/car/booth/whatever rather than wait the few seconds for the next one to come into view. It wasn’t until many years after I’d graduated that I discovered they are both extremely rare, and dangerous. No anecdotes on that score though, sorry. I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t put a pressure sensor or whatever and make them safer. The James Went building has since been demolished. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/3 "2014-06-26T09:49:02Z")
They’ve still got one at Sheffield Uni Arts Tower; I went there, and so did my missus, and my daughter is there at the moment. Still dangerous. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/w8-RdjCll0w/hqdefault.jpg "paternoster at Arts Tower, University of Sheffield") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-RdjCll0w) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/4 "2014-06-26T09:51:08Z")
As you can see there is a conventional lift directly opposite. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/5 "2014-06-26T10:20:30Z")
> [@Busy\_Scissors](#): > > Anyone ever ridden in a [paternoster elevator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster)? Extremely cool, but they are rare in the UK nowadays. They seem to be of an age where health and safety considerations were not as prominent in the workplace. > > My question is whether this concern over paternoster H&S is merited - there seems to be plenty of scope for horrific injury if you tripped, say, on stepping in. Was this the case? Dangle a leg out and that’s the last you’d see of it? > > I would guess a modern paternoster could be built with appropriate sensors to stop the lift mechanism in the event of stray limbs? The one time I used one (20 + years ago) these sort of features were not evident, but perhaps they were there. I’ve been in a couple in Budapest, and, from what I remember, there was a simple safety mechanism that, in theory, should stop the paternoster in case anything is over the edge. That said, it looks there have been several deaths attributed to the pater noster, according to the Wikipedia page on it. [Here’s a page](http://www.theelevatormuseum.org/f/f_1.htm) mentioning a flap on the floor as the safety mechanism. Actually, now that I think about it, the Budapest one was styled more like [this one](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3c/Anton_Freissler_P.jpg/220px-Anton_Freissler_P.jpg), and I thought the grate that you see there was the safety mechanism. [Found a picture of one](http://www.irodalmijelen.hu/node/14683). I believe that overhand on the top (where the guy’s head would be) is the safety mechanism in this type of paternoster. If there’s any upward pressure on that, it should stop the lift. At least that’s what I was told. I’m not sure what the “flap” mechanism that is mentioned on other pages looks like exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/6 "2014-06-26T10:34:47Z")
Napier College (now University) in Edinburgh stopped using their one in late 1975/early 76, apparently (according to rumour at the time) following an accident with one at some other university in England. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/7 "2014-06-26T10:37:06Z")
The London Eye is a bit like a big, circular one of these. It doesn’t stop to let you on or off. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/8 "2014-06-26T10:41:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I believe that overhand on the top (where the guy’s head would be) is the safety mechanism in this type of paternoster. If there’s any upward pressure on that, it should stop the lift. At least that’s what I was told. I’m not sure what the “flap” mechanism that is mentioned on other pages looks like exactly. Surely the momentum of the system is going to render any such safety cutoff a bit impotent, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/9 "2014-06-26T11:06:09Z")
I was on one of these, I think maybe in Vienna or Prague, and was scared shitless. I can’t imagine why there aren’t deaths or dismemberments all the time, with people having to leap into or out of these contraptions. ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/10 "2014-06-26T11:16:51Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > They’ve still got one at Sheffield Uni Arts Tower; I went there, and so did my missus, and my daughter is there at the moment. Still dangerous. > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-RdjCll0w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-RdjCll0w) I went to Sheffield too. I didn’t have any classes in the Arts Tower, but went in there just to ride the lift. I found it terrifying…as you can hear on the video, it sounds incredibly rickety. And the carriages are tiny (there’s barely room for 2 people), so it’s kind of like riding a coffin. And yes, I got told that you have to get off before it reaches the top, otherwise you would end up upside-down on the way down. I believed it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/11 "2014-06-26T11:21:19Z")
I think they showed one of the those in the movie The Omen. I thought it was creepy and cool- didn’t realize they had been so widely popular. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/12 "2014-06-26T12:23:41Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > They’ve still got one at Sheffield Uni Arts Tower; I went there, and so did my missus, and my daughter is there at the moment. Still dangerous. > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-RdjCll0w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8-RdjCll0w) I’m a Sheffield grad too. There are two things required before you can graduate. [ul] [li]Pass your course[/li][li]Go all the way round the paternoster.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/13 "2014-06-26T12:24:42Z")
iirc, the one at Napier held 4 people at a time. After the first couple of shots on it, it was easy enough to use. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/14 "2014-06-26T14:15:41Z")
I went to De Montfort too, and used the paternoster a lot because it was the non-stair route to the canteen and I was pregnant and anaemic, making stairs difficult. At about six months pregnant my stomach was brushing against the floors as we passed them and I got permission to eat in the teachers’ canteen on the ground floor instead (I was a grad student, which made it easier). It was really bizarre feeling the edge of those floors against my stomach. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/15 "2014-06-26T14:18:34Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Surely the momentum of the system is going to render any such safety cutoff a bit impotent, isn’t it? I wouldn’t have thought so, no. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/16 "2014-06-26T14:48:14Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I wouldn’t have thought so, no. How so? - the system must have a fair bit of mass, even without the passengers - how is that going to come to an instantaneous stop without destroying itself? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/17 "2014-06-26T14:52:06Z")
[I’ve ridden a belt manlift elevator](http://www.humphrey-manlift.com/store.asp?pid=27319). It’s much the same as a paternoster except for the absence of the compartment. There are some safety concerns and most places restrict their use to employees only, no contractors or visitors allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/18 "2014-06-26T15:11:52Z")
I imagine having overly zealous safety cutoffs would be incredibly aggravating for the other people using the elevator. All it needs is once wag to put a brick in the wrong place and the whole building can’t use it until it’s found. ---
**Author:** ![bunyupp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@bunyupp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bunyupp)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/19 "2014-06-26T15:20:57Z")
When I was stationed with the US Army V Corps in Frankfurt, Germany, I worked in the old [IG Farben building](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben_Building)(at the time called The Abrams Building). It had/has several Patenosters that, after your first ride or two, were fun and convenient to ride. We would always tell the newbies about it going upside down if they failed to get off on the top floor. There were no safety devices that we were aware of. You did need good timing and visual depth perception to step on and off, though. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680/20 "2014-06-26T15:33:12Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > [I’ve ridden a belt manlift elevator](http://www.humphrey-manlift.com/store.asp?pid=27319). It’s much the same as a paternoster except for the absence of the compartment. There are some safety concerns and most places restrict their use to employees only, no contractors or visitors allowed. A parking garage/rental car place in Seattle had one of those. Never saw anybody use it, but I always wanted to try it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/safety-of-paternoster-elevators/691680.md?page=2)