# SAG-AFTRA on strike against videogame producers since Oct 2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103 "2017-06-29T01:38:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/41 "2017-06-29T17:48:42Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Yeah, but that’s for a few weeks of work, and without any travel (in my experience, the sound team flies out to where the talent is, not the other way around). Sounds swank. Maybe you should quit the programming and take up voice acting. Look, it would be perfectly reasonable for you to want a bonus if the game you worked on sells 2 million units and for that bonus to be bigger than the voice actors residual. But you are annoyed that SAG is only going after their members’ reasonable request and not yours. That isn’t reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/42 "2017-06-29T17:57:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I wasn’t talking about if they could afford it. Jophiel was asking “if we are going to take away profit and give it to the workers, which workers should get it?” I am saying splitting $3k amongst the programmers is next to meaningless. But it’s not $3K. It’s $3K per voice actor. Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Merle Dandridge, Annie Wersching, Jeffrey Pierce, W. Earl Brown, Brandon Scott, Nadji Jeter, Nolan North, Yaani King, Hana Hayes, Robin Atkin Downes, Ashley Scott, and Reuben Langdon all provided voices for “The Last of Us.” 14 actors at $3K is $42,000. That’s not “retire to my private island” money for anyone, but it could be a nice pot for coder bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/43 "2017-06-29T18:09:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it’s not $3K. It’s $3K per voice actor. Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Merle Dandridge, Annie Wersching, Jeffrey Pierce, W. Earl Brown, Brandon Scott, Nadji Jeter, Nolan North, Yaani King, Hana Hayes, Robin Atkin Downes, Ashley Scott, and Reuben Langdon all provided voices for “The Last of Us.” > > 14 actors at $3K is $42,000. That’s not “retire to my private island” money for anyone, but it could be a nice pot for coder bonuses. Now count how many programmers, earning $70k or so, worked on the game and divide $42k between them. I think you’ll find it a rather insulting bonus amount. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/44 "2017-06-29T18:17:08Z")
[https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/652686-the-last-of-us/credit](https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/652686-the-last-of-us/credit) I count 18 programmers, 5 “additional” programmers, 2 lead programmers if we don’t count the game developers, animators and lighting effects guys. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/45 "2017-06-29T18:19:37Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Now count how many programmers, earning $70k or so, worked on the game and divide $42k between them. I think you’ll find it a rather insulting bonus amount. If you ever want to insult me with an extra $1000, you have my permission. In advance. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/46 "2017-06-29T18:23:02Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Now count how many programmers, earning $70k or so, worked on the game and divide $42k between them. I think you’ll find it a rather insulting bonus amount. $1,830 if you split it evenly between everyone with “Programmer” or “Additional Programmer” [as their title](https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/652686-the-last-of-us/credit). So an extra 2.6% bonus. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/47 "2017-06-29T18:23:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The only games I play that have recognizable names doing voice work are Starcraft 2 and Diablo III (though both would have finished recording before the strike anyway), and I note that Blizzard is not on the list of struck companies. Blizzard is owned by Activision, fyi. Regarding the notion that actors who do voice work for games that sell over 2 million units - it should be understood that very few games ever even crack the 1 million mark. This, for example - > **[USA Yearly Video Game Chart, Week Ending 10th Jul 1975 - VGChartz](https://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2017/USA/)** > > VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC Is a chart showing the performance of games to date in the US (I’m only looking at US, since we’re talking a country were SAG is relevant). Here’s the top-10 performers of the year so far (and their totals, if applicable): ```auto 1. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (NS) 1,303,200 to date, 1,303,200 total 2 Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (NS) 754,659 to date, 754,659 total 3 Horizon: Zero Dawn (PS4) 721,015 to date, 721,015 total 4 Pokemon Sun/Moon (3DS) 690,665 to date, 5,029,789 total 5 MLB The Show 17 (PS4) 583,941 to date, 583,941 total 6 Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Wildlands (PS4) 564,475 to date, 564,475 total 7 Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Wildlands (XOne) 505,904 to date, 505,904 total 8 Resident Evil VII: Biohazard (PS4) 501,452 to date, 501,452 total 9 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (WiiU) 494,238 to date, 494,238 total 10 Uncharted 4: A Thief's End (PS4) 472,992 to date 3,730,680 total ``` Notice that quite a lot of those games might not hit 2 Million even this year. MLB - sports games are hard to figure, but they tend to sell the most right at the start, because they rely on multiplayer. They may never pass 2M, before next year’s comes out. Ghost Recon - another series that does most of its sales upfront because multi, is probably nearing its peak. Breath of the Wild might get there, and Horizon, but it mostly depends on Switch penetration. Mario Kart and Pokemon will continue to be big sellers, obvs. Uncharted, one of the biggest series alive, will probably top at 5M. It’s limited to the Playstation, though. Here’s a different search of the VGChartz database, for games that have sold 2 million world wide > **[Video Game Charts, Game Sales, Top Sellers, Game Data - VGChartz](https://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?page=5&results=200&name=&platform=&minSales=2&publisher=&genre=&sort=GL)** > > VGChartz - extensive game chart coverage, including sales data, news, reviews, forums, & game database for PS5, Xbox Series, Nintendo Switch & PC Notice that out of a database of 171,000 games, they only find 873 that sold over 2M globally, and that’s going back decades. Here’s another cite - Wiki, but useful - of the top 50 best selling games of all time. > **[List of best-selling video games](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games)** > > This is a list of video games that have sold the highest number of software units worldwide. The best-selling video game to date is Minecraft, a sandbox game released by Mojang in November 2011 for a wide range of PC, mobile and console platforms, selling more than 300 million copies across all platforms. Grand Theft Auto V and EA's Tetris are the only other known video games to have sold over 100 million copies. The best-selling game on a single platform is Wii Sports, with nearly 83 million... Notice that this includes games going all the way back to Duck Hunt and Tetris (still No. 1!) > [@Wiki article about best selling games](#): > > Of the top 50 best-selling video games of all-time on all platforms, 21 were developed or published by Nintendo and originally released on a Nintendo platform, including six of the top ten. Other publishers with multiple entries in the top 50 include Activision (seven titles, all in the Call of Duty franchise), Rockstar Games (five titles, four of which are Grand Theft Auto releases) and Electronic Arts (three games in three different series). Aside from Nintendo internal development divisions, Game Freak is the developer with the most games in the top 50, with eight titles from the Pokémon series included. The oldest game in the top 50 is Duck Hunt, which was originally released on April 21, 1984; the newest games in the top 50 are Nintendo 3DS titles Pokémon Sun and Moon, both of which were released on November 18, 2016. The only indie games (in the modern sense) on that list are Minecraft by Mojang and Terraria by Re-Logic (neither of which includes celebrity voice actors). The other producers on that list (ignoring companies from the 80’s and 90’s) are: Nintendo The Pokemon Company Blizzard Activision Bethesda Electronic Arts Sega Microsoft Studios Rockstar/Take Two In short - yeah. All those companies can afford to give residuals to professional voice actors. Granted that list cuts off before we get into the more interesting borderline cases. But I think it’s clear that by specifying 2 million in sales, actors are aiming for only the top selling commercial hits. This request for residuals will almost exclusively affect games that are the equivalent of major motion studios blockbusters (and the rare indie mega-success). It will almost exclusively affect games that are being produced by the biggest studios with the biggest wallets. Indie studios or smaller games - who can’t afford SAG actors in the first place - will not be burdened by granting residuals for games that sell 2 Million. 2 million games sold sounds like a lot, but in the game industry, it’s only very top sellers and the biggest studios that will be affected by this on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/48 "2017-06-29T18:26:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you ever want to insult me with an extra $1000, you have my permission. In advance. My buddy working at Apple just got something like $8k mid-year bonus. He was surprised because he thought there was only an end of year bonus. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/49 "2017-06-29T18:31:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > $1,830 if you split it evenly between everyone with “Programmer” or “Additional Programmer” [as their title](https://www.gamefaqs.com/ps3/652686-the-last-of-us/credit). So an extra 2.6% bonus. Including lead programmers, 42,000/25=1680. Since there are certainly guys making over $70k it is less than 2% for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/50 "2017-06-29T18:32:44Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > The main sticking point is residuals (currently game publishers don’t pay them; SAG wants them.) Production companies love residuals. As long as they’re collecting them rather than paying them. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/51 "2017-06-29T18:34:24Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Including lead programmers, 42,000/25=1680. Since there are certainly guys making over $70k it is less than 2% for sure. Sure, and we don’t know the exact distribution, etc. But if the argument is that the programmers are “eh” or insulted by an extra $1.6k as a bonus, it’s not a very compelling one. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/52 "2017-06-29T18:48:37Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Sure, and we don’t know the exact distribution, etc. But if the argument is that the programmers are “eh” or insulted by an extra $1.6k as a bonus, it’s not a very compelling one. Do you get bonuses at work? I don’t but friends and my wife do. A bonus that is barely an extra paycheck really isn’t much. And as noted above, this bonus only arrives when you have a major blockbuster game. If that blockbuster you help develop earns you the merest token of a bonus you really should feel a little underappreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/53 "2017-06-29T18:50:55Z")
If programmers want what SAG members have then they need to band together and fight the toxic libertarianism and machismo that plagues their profession. Start looking out for each other. Stop letting their employers buy their loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/54 "2017-06-29T18:51:00Z")
We have an actual game developer in the thread. **Lightnin’** , would you be insulted by a $1680 bonus? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/55 "2017-06-29T18:57:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We have an actual game developer in the thread. > > **Lightnin’** , would you be insulted by a $1680 bonus? And have you worked on a game that sold over 2 million copies? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/56 "2017-06-29T18:58:54Z")
Just FYI: VGA Charts is incredibly innacurate. I would attempt to use official numbers if they are released, NPD numbers when available, or Steamspy numbers - but they are only accurate when it’s a Steam exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/57 "2017-06-29T19:11:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > A bonus that is barely an extra paycheck really isn’t much. I somehow doubt that this is how the programmers feel. Or, heck, it doesn’t even have to be a direct cash reward. Maybe put that money towards an extra programmer on a project so the rest can work something closer to a 40-50 hour week. That’s “towards”, yes I know $70k, etc. Point being, I really doubt that the programmers couldn’t find more reward in $42,000 besides “Feh, give your pity pennies to voice actors!” ---
**Author:** ![pjacks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@pjacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pjacks)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/58 "2017-06-29T19:13:27Z")
I completely forgot this strike was still ongoing. Now that I think about it though, I’ve noticed some really bad voice acting in games lately, something I never usually payed much attention to. Mass Effect Andromeda’s was MST3K-level bad. Horizon: ZD seemed to have been voiced entirely by stoned hipsters. Even the new Zelda had some very strange voice acting throughout. Sent from my R1 HD using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/59 "2017-06-29T19:21:32Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I somehow doubt that this is how the programmers feel. Or, heck, it doesn’t even have to be a direct cash reward. Maybe put that money towards an extra programmer on a project so the rest can work something closer to a 40-50 hour week. That’s “towards”, yes I know $70k, etc. Point being, I really doubt that the programmers couldn’t find more reward in $42,000 besides “Feh, give your pity pennies to voice actors!” Let’s not get too ridiculous. No one is turning down free money. My point is that SAG is asking for a pittance from incredibly successful projects. Saying maybe we should instead split that pittance amongst the programmers and game developers is silly because it wouldn’t change the programmers’ financials, job loyalty or workload at all. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/60 "2017-06-29T19:31:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > [http://www.careerigniter.com/questions/how-much-does-a-voice-actor-make/](http://www.careerigniter.com/questions/how-much-does-a-voice-actor-make/) > [Video game programmer - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_programmer) > > You are of course free to lay your sympathies wherever you like but we should remember this isn’t about the Tom Cruises of the world demanding extra cash while lounging in their swimming pools. How many hours do the voice actors work compared to programmers? I suspect that the voice actors don’t put in nearly the time the programmers do. Slee [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103.md?page=4)