# SAG-AFTRA on strike against videogame producers since Oct 2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103 "2017-06-29T01:38:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/81 "2017-06-30T13:33:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it’s not $3K. It’s $3K per voice actor. Troy Baker, Ashley Johnson, Merle Dandridge, Annie Wersching, Jeffrey Pierce, W. Earl Brown, Brandon Scott, Nadji Jeter, Nolan North, Yaani King, Hana Hayes, Robin Atkin Downes, Ashley Scott, and Reuben Langdon all provided voices for “The Last of Us.” > > 14 actors at $3K is $42,000. That’s not “retire to my private island” money for anyone, but it could be a nice pot for coder bonuses. I know nothing of this affair, but the idea that any employers, having saved a sum on one group, spontaneously decide to redistribute the money to others, not themselves, is sufficiently hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/82 "2017-06-30T13:38:44Z")
I forgot to note that the fat cat programmers making $95,300 a year are making $46/hr in the hilarious dream world where they work 40hr weeks compared to the $200/hr voice actors are making. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/83 "2017-06-30T13:46:21Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I assume most voice actors aren’t voice acting as a full-time gig. The above linked article says you can be getting paid $825 for a four-house session. That would be over $400k a year but, if they’re making $31k, that’s maybe 150hrs of work. [This article](https://www.polygon.com/features/2013/4/2/4104160/why-arent-video-game-actors-treated-like-stars) backs up that number: > > If you’re a voice actor earning $31k a year doing video games then either you’re working the equivalent of perhaps one month of 40hr weeks per year or you’re getting paid way under what your fellow voice actors are making. In either case, comparing it to what full time programmers who are spending years of 60+ hour weeks on a project are making as a defense for why you deserve residuals is pretty weak stuff. It’s not weak stuff, they are completely different jobs. Saying “why should they get residuals and not us” is the weak stuff. Yes, programmers work more. They also get paid more. So you think it’s reasonable to be resentful that they aren’t getting enough more than the actors? Double or triple the annual salary not good enough? Actors aren’t getting 40 hrs a week til they score some goldmine of a gig. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/84 "2017-06-30T13:53:06Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Double or triple the annual salary not good enough? Actors aren’t getting 40 hrs a week til they score some goldmine of a gig. It’s 3x the salary for 12x the hours of work. More than that really since they’re not working 40hr weeks but rather 50-60+ work weeks. If voice actors aren’t getting 40hrs of work, they have plenty of time to pick up a second job instead of demanding even more money for that grueling 3hr work week they’re putting in annually to hit $31,000 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/85 "2017-06-30T13:54:47Z")
> [@rejemy](#): > > \ > > I think actors should definitely be paid well for their work, and should advocate for more pay if they can, but the reason many companies are reluctant to sign on with any residuals plan is that they know there would be massive discontent from the development team who would feel demoralized and unappreciated. I think this is really the point. The companies in question don’t want to give an inch on voice actors, even though they are almost exclusively major, multi-billion dollar corporations, because then everyone will want residuals. And, honestly, everyone _should_ be getting residuals on blockbuster games, that sell for multi-billion dollar amounts for years and years. But like **CarnalK** - it’s unfair to try and hold back the voice actor pay just because other contributors are getting stiffed, as well. Instead of resenting voice actors for getting residuals, programers and others in the game development world should join them in the strike and insist on residuals for themselves. Stop being the crabs, pulling each other back into the pot. If game developers would join together and strike in support of the voice actors, they could all benefit from this. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/86 "2017-06-30T14:11:10Z")
If you’re making $200/hr and not earning a living wage because there’s not 40hrs worth of work then it sounds as though voice acting shouldn’t be treated as your full-time job, not that you should be getting paid even more money and using “But I only make $31,000” as your complaint. Much like lifeguards and mall Santas, have a Plan B for the off-season. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/87 "2017-06-30T14:13:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > It’s 3x the salary for 12x the hours of work. More than that really since they’re not working 40hr weeks but rather 50-60+ work weeks. > > If voice actors aren’t getting 40hrs of work, they have plenty of time to pick up a second job instead of demanding even more money for that grueling 3hr work week they’re putting in annually to hit $31,000 And game programmers are perfectly capable of taking some banking database job if they think they’re getting ripped off in hours. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/88 "2017-06-30T14:15:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And game programmers are perfectly capable of taking some banking database job if they think they’re getting ripped off in hours. Cool. When you find an ad for a database job paying $31k for 3/hrs work weekly, make sure you let them know. But on a more personal level, as a guy who plays games, I would much rather see those programmers stay in their video game jobs and the voice actors pick up some hours doing other work to supplement their $31k than see the voice actors get paid more and the programmers go into corporate database programming. So it’s an easy call to decide where my sympathies lie. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/89 "2017-06-30T14:27:07Z")
There really isn’t much point discussing some Googled numbers and your back of the envelope math. SAG is trying to apply some industry standards to game acting. Those standards didn’t stop plenty of commercials and entertainment from being produced but now it has to stop because it makes the programmers resentful? I have a hard time having sympathy for that position personally. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/90 "2017-06-30T15:26:03Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There really isn’t much point discussing some Googled numbers and your back of the envelope math. It’s pretty simple math. You yourself “Googled” the $31k number. If you don’t think your own cites are good enough and now you want to brush them off because they’re working against you, maybe next time you should think twice before presenting them. > [@](#): > > I have a hard time having sympathy for that position personally. I have a hard time finding sympathy for people making $200 an hour and working an average of three hours a week. Certainly when coming out of a finite pot while other people working far harder for many, many more hours are making a fraction of that $200/hr. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/91 "2017-06-30T15:32:14Z")
It’s simple math where you decided to or mistakenly ignored agent and SAG fees. Math where you decided to or mistakenly ignored the much greater time actors must spend job searching compared to a programmer. Math about a job and industry you just aren’t familiar with. I googled some numbers for a ball park idea. You are trying to break it down too much. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/92 "2017-06-30T15:37:21Z")
I have little sympathy for people who type in a keyboard all day and think that that’s hard work when there are people out there making a pittance while doing jobs that are physically crushing. See how that works? If you think you’re not getting enough in your profession then form a union and bargain. You’re being petty by judging from the outside whether you that no someone in a different profession works hard enough for what they make. If video games don’t actually need the services of professional voice actors, that will be reflected in the bargaining results. But if quality voice acting really is important to the success of a good game then they are perfectly justified in pushing for whatever they can get collectively. And video games are an entertainment product. Audience-facing performers will always get more attention and credit than back-end workers because they are putting their actual personas on the line. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/93 "2017-06-30T15:39:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It’s simple math where you decided to or mistakenly ignored agent and SAG fees. Math where you decided to or mistakenly ignored the much greater time actors must spend job searching compared to a programmer. Math about a job and industry you just aren’t familiar with. So what? They lose 10% here and 15% there and 2% in the other place? You want to call it $150/hr? Do we start mourning them now? Again, if there’s not 40 hours of work per week, then don’t treat it as a full time job and demand compensation to turn three hours a week into a living full-time wage. A whole lot of other people understand that when they have side gigs in the arts so I’m not sure what the disconnect here is when it comes to voice acting. If you want to try and play some “You don’t know the industry” card then give real hard cites instead of finding some numbers on Google and then acting like “numbers on Google don’t count”. Because the “numbers on Google” all point to ~$200/hr and you want to beat that $31k drum and I’m sorry if $31k/200 isn’t complicated enough to get your respect but that’s how the math works out. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/94 "2017-06-30T15:42:06Z")
I didn’t say number on Google don’t count. I don’t want to discuss your uninformed calculations. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/95 "2017-06-30T15:42:56Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I have little sympathy for people who type in a keyboard all day and think that that’s hard work when there are people out there making a pittance while doing jobs that are physically crushing. See how that works? Sure. But I’m not really asking for sympathy for anyone so much as saying that there’s no convincing argument presented to lend sympathy to voice actors over the developers and coders. And, since there’s a finite pool of money, that argument is an important one. We’re not comparing coders and coal miners here, these are two groups of people on the same project but putting in very disparate amounts of work. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/96 "2017-06-30T15:44:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I didn’t say number on Google don’t count. I don’t want to discuss your uninformed calculations. Still waiting on the cites. Give me hard cites on how much voice actors make per hour so we can discuss it without you hiding behind “But… Google!” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/97 "2017-06-30T15:45:17Z")
Wait away. In the mean time you can calculate the specific ratio of pay that is fair between actors and programmers so I know what I’m shooting for. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/98 "2017-06-30T15:50:17Z")
If that’s the thread you want to cling to, go for it. I don’t see what some “ratio” has to do with you presenting factual numbers about voice actor earnings that aren’t “But Google!” but it seems like you’re just not really willing to commit to a number you know is a losing argument. One of the articles mentioned that the strike is likely to fail since gamers aren’t really rallying around the voice actors here. Given the terrible arguments and defenses presented in this thread, it’s not hard to see why not. There’s really no “there” there. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/99 "2017-06-30T15:52:49Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If video games don’t actually need the services of professional voice actors, that will be reflected in the bargaining results. But if quality voice acting really is important to the success of a good game then they are perfectly justified in pushing for whatever they can get collectively. This, in a nutshell. So far I haven’t heard much to convince me that the difference in quality between non-SAG-AFTRA and SAG-AFTRA performers is even noticeable. But I hesitate to declare that as fact, because I haven’t heard much to discredit the idea either. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/100 "2017-06-30T15:52:59Z")
Thread I’m clinging to? Isn’t it your whole point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103.md?page=6)