# SAG-AFTRA on strike against videogame producers since Oct 2016 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103 "2017-06-29T01:38:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![rejemy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@rejemy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rejemy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/121 "2017-07-01T05:30:31Z")
I don’t think voice actors are responsible for my feelings. I don’t expect them to fix the video games industry. I’m just trying to explain some of the reluctance game companies have to getting into royalty deals, not so much trying to justify it. Why I felt the need to do so, I’m not sure! Pent up explaining, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/122 "2017-07-01T05:48:59Z")
> [@rejemy](#): > > I don’t think voice actors are responsible for my feelings. I don’t expect them to fix the video games industry. I’m just trying to explain some of the reluctance game companies have to getting into royalty deals, not so much trying to justify it. Why I felt the need to do so, I’m not sure! Pent up explaining, I guess. …nah mate, I understand where you are coming from and you’ve explained yourself well. 🙂 You guys work your arses off and deserve much much better. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/123 "2017-07-01T09:25:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > For whatever light this may cast on the life of voice actors: > > As you may know, Steve Carrell, a very talented actor, lends his voice to the character “Gru,” in the _Despicable Me_ franchise; the third installment is in theaters now. Carrell and his co-star Kristen Wiig are doing press junkets for the movie now. > > In an interview on the Today show, Carrell shared that he went to Spain to do press for the movie. . . despite the fact that viewers in Spain never hear Carrell’s voice. They hear the Spanish dub of the movie by a totally different actor. One of the Today hosts asked him what he said in response to the request to do press for a movie version that features neither his image or his voice. > > He replied, “Thanks for the free trip to Spain!” Why in would this offer anything? It’s about someone who is primarily an non-voice actor who is hired for his fame rather than vocal talents for use in a movie. And it says nothing about how much he is paid or anything. You already pointed out the obvious. All that matters is whether or not the striking voice actors are important enough that video game companies are willing to negotiate. Nothing about your anecdote establishes anything either way on that front. There is no need to post what seems to be an attack on Carrell’s personal character, and, by implication, an attack on the personal character of voice actors. Carrell is not a typical voice actor, and would actually be viewed negatively in the voice acting community since he only does his own voice. The “real” voice actors spend years developing various voices, and learning what voice to apply to what character based on the character’s look and characteristics. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/124 "2017-07-02T03:47:13Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > SAG-AFTRA have already signed 45 games (33 game companies) to independently negotiated video game agreements during the strike. They have already come to agreement on a number of issues. There are still a few up for negotiation. So what you “just don’t see as working” already “has” worked to a degree. What are the typical terms in these signed agreements? Disclosure of the project ahead of time? Mandatory stunt coordinators? Residuals at the 2 million sold mark? Hours cut from 4 to 2 without loss of pay? As I understand it, those were the big asks. Have they been won on those 45 games? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/125 "2017-07-02T04:32:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What are the typical terms in these signed agreements? Disclosure of the project ahead of time? Mandatory stunt coordinators? Residuals at the 2 million sold mark? Hours cut from 4 to 2 without loss of pay? As I understand it, those were the big asks. …why are you asking me those questions, and not SAG-AFTRA? There were a whole range of “asks.” Compromises have already been made by both sides. Its a negotiation. The individually negotiated agreements are for individual games only: so probably don’t include “mandatory stunt coordinators” but probably do include “a stunt coordinator for that particular game.” But this is a factual question. Ask the people with the answers. > [@](#): > > Have they been won on those 45 games? You’ve got quite a list of questions to put to SAG-AFTRA now. I’m not your monkey. If you want answers to your question do your own leg work. My posts were made with publicly available information. If you want more in-depth answers: then go ask the people who know. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/126 "2017-07-02T04:47:53Z")
SAG-AFTRA are in overtime with the producers’ guild over their latest contract. The contract expired at midnight last night, but they’re now on a day to day basis. Movie and TV actors may go on strike if the union calls a strike vote. So, no TV or movies. This could actually kill soap operas. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/127 "2017-07-02T05:35:39Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > SAG-AFTRA are in overtime with the producers’ guild over their latest contract. The contract expired at midnight last night, but they’re now on a day to day basis. Movie and TV actors may go on strike if the union calls a strike vote. So, no TV or movies. This could actually kill soap operas. Now that I would not support in any way. That’s just striking against people who aren’t even involved in the negotiation. I do not support striking against a third party. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/128 "2017-07-02T06:01:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Now that I would not support in any way. That’s just striking against people who aren’t even involved in the negotiation. I do not support striking against a third party. …nothing to do with the videogame strike. This is the negotiation between [the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers and the Guild.](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/sag-aftra-deal-elusive-as-midnight-expiration-strike-threat-loom-1018332) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/129 "2017-07-02T06:13:43Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …why are you asking me those questions, and not SAG-AFTRA? There were a whole range of “asks.” Compromises have already been made by both sides. Its a negotiation. The individually negotiated agreements are for individual games only: so probably don’t include “mandatory stunt coordinators” but probably do include “a stunt coordinator for that particular game.” But this is a factual question. Ask the people with the answers. So far as I am aware, “SAG” does not post here; neither does “AFTRA.” > [@](#): > > You’ve got quite a list of questions to put to SAG-AFTRA now. I’m not your monkey. If you want answers to your question do your own leg work. My posts were made with publicly available information. If you want more in-depth answers: then go ask the people who know. Your posts were made in a way that suggested the strike negotiations ended well for for the strikers in those 33 game companies. I was asking you because your posts left that impression. Since you don’t have any actual information, it’s good to highlight that fact for anyone reading your positive-sounding posts. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/130 "2017-07-02T07:22:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So far as I am aware, “SAG” does not post here; neither does “AFTRA.” …and I am not a spokesman for SAG. So asking me questions that only either the union or the contracting party would know doesn’t make any sense. I’ve linked to the official SAG position. If you want to know more then you need to be talking to them. > [@](#): > > Your posts were made in a way that suggested the strike negotiations ended well for for the strikers in those 33 game companies. What I actually wrote: “SAG-AFTRA have already signed 45 games (33 game companies) to independently negotiated video game agreements during the strike. They have already come to agreement on a number of issues. There are still a few up for negotiation. So what you “just don’t see as working” already “has” worked to a degree.” The strike negotiations haven’t “ended well” for the strikers yet. Because the negotiations are on-going. An agreement has been struck with those 33 companies to keep 45 games in production that can use SAG-AFTRA voice actors. But those are independent agreements that end when those games are published. That post was in response to the statement “I just don’t see it working.” But you guys don’t seem to understand the purpose of negotiating. The strike hasn’t failed if the Guild doesn’t get 100% agreement. The strike hasn’t failed if a percentage of the gaming public generally don’t support it. I don’t think in the history of the labour movement the strikers have gotten 100% of everything they asked for. And I don’t think in the history or the world a group has gone on strike without upsetting some segments of society. The Guild withdraws labour. The production companies threaten to go “off-union.” This is just how it works. They will argue. They will compromise. Both side will declare victory. Its kind of pointless to be trying to figure out “who is winning” at this point of the negotiation. I’ve linked to what SAG-AFTRA are asking for. I’ve linked to the positions that both parties have agreed to, I’ve linked to the ones that are still in dispute. SAG-AFTRA have won some battles, and lost some others. They have compromised. This is just how it works. > [@](#): > > I was asking you because your posts left that impression. Since you don’t have any actual information, it’s good to highlight that fact for anyone reading your positive-sounding posts. But the strike \*\*\*has \*\*\*worked to a degree. And thats all I said. Do you disagree? 45 games in production have bypassed the negotiators, engaged independently with the guild and have come to an agreement so that production can continue with the use of SAG-AFTRA members. That is a positive outcome. Games are being made, voice actors are getting work. We don’t actually need to know the details. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/131 "2017-07-02T17:27:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But the strike \*\*\*has \*\*\*worked to a degree. And thats all I said. Do you disagree? 45 games in production have bypassed the negotiators, engaged independently with the guild and have come to an agreement so that production can continue with the use of SAG-AFTRA members. That is a positive outcome. Games are being made, voice actors are getting work. We don’t actually need to know the details. SAG: . . . and a stunt coordinator on set for motion capture. GAME COMPANY: Yes, OK, very interesting. Um, counter-proposal: we give you free sodas while you’re working. And that’s it. By the way, here’s a list of 200 non-union voice actors ready to go to work. SAG: We accept your counter-proposal. (aside) The strike worked! Free sodas! (pause) To a degree. It worked to a degree. No, **Banquet** – to assess the statement, we DO need at least some details. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/132 "2017-07-02T18:36:54Z")
I feel rather comfortable assuming that if a few game companies relented and signed deals with SAG it probably didn’t include complete capitulation by SAG. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/133 "2017-07-02T18:55:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I feel rather comfortable assuming that if a few game companies relented and signed deals with SAG it probably didn’t include complete capitulation by SAG. Probably. But the 08 WGAE and WGAE strike was, by any fair assessment, not a big win. So I think it’s fair to point out that the “degree,” in question may not be particularly significant. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/134 "2017-07-02T20:22:08Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > 45 games in production have bypassed the negotiators, engaged independently with the guild and have come to an agreement so that production can continue with the use of SAG-AFTRA members. That is a positive outcome. Games are being made, voice actors are getting work. We don’t actually need to know the details. Well, it would be helpful to know how many games were getting made with SAG involvement a year or so ago, before the strike. If it’s 45 games out of a typical 200 (for example) then it’s a bit of spin to call it “positive” when the number of games is 25% of the jobs SAG was getting. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/135 "2017-07-02T22:52:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > SAG: . . . and a stunt coordinator on set for motion capture. > > GAME COMPANY: Yes, OK, very interesting. Um, counter-proposal: we give you free sodas while you’re working. And that’s it. By the way, here’s a list of 200 non-union voice actors ready to go to work. > > SAG: We accept your counter-proposal. (aside) The strike worked! Free sodas! (pause) To a degree. It worked to a degree. …if this is the deal that was made then whats your problem? If free sodas was an acceptable position to SAG membership, and they took this deal, then yeah, it worked. But you know as well as I do that this is nonsense. SAG negotiates on behalf of the SAG-AFTRA membership, and the initial strike action was supported by 97% of SAG-AFTRA voice actors. Do you actually think they would continue to show faith and solidarity with the union if the temporary agreements they made were as ridiculous as you suggest? > [@](#): > > No, **Banquet** – to assess the statement, we DO need at least some details. No \*\*we \*\*don’t need any details. \*\*You \*\*need the details: because the relative success or failure of this strike is important to whatever the heck it is you are trying to debate. (What is the debate again exactly?) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/136 "2017-07-02T23:10:08Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > No \*\*we \*\*don’t need any details. \*\*You \*\*need the details: because the relative success or failure of this strike is important to whatever the heck it is you are trying to debate. (What is the debate again exactly?) ANYONE, you, me, or we, who wishes to independently assess the success of the strike needs those details. The debate is: > [@Bricker](#): > > “[N]ame” voice talent is/is not pivotal to the success of some video games. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/137 "2017-07-02T23:11:23Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Well, it would be helpful to know how many games were getting made with SAG involvement a year or so ago, before the strike. If it’s 45 games out of a typical 200 (for example) then it’s a bit of spin to call it “positive” when the number of games is 25% of the jobs SAG was getting. …all of this information is available on the SAG website. I’ve already cited it, I’ve already posted a link to the non-struck titles. I’ll do it again for you. These games are non-struck: [https://www.sagaftra.org/files/non-struck\_video\_game\_productions\_list\_5.26.17.pdf](https://www.sagaftra.org/files/non-struck_video_game_productions_list_5.26.17.pdf) And these games are struck: [https://www.sagaftra.org/files/struck\_video\_game\_productions\_list\_3.20.172.pdf](https://www.sagaftra.org/files/struck_video_game_productions_list_3.20.172.pdf) Yes: I think it is positive that there are games are in production and that people are working. Do you think differently? Well we are all entitled to our own opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/138 "2017-07-02T23:16:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > ANYONE, you, me, or we, who wishes to independently assess the success of the strike needs those details. …why do we need to assess the success of the strike? What does that have to do with the point that you want to debate? > [@](#): > > The debate is: If this is the debate: then why do we need to know the details of an agreement between the guild and a games production company? What do these details tell us about how pivotal voice talent is to the success of some video games? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/139 "2017-07-02T23:22:49Z")
Following the 07-08 WGAE and WGAW strike, Joss Whedon [wrote a song](http://drhorrible.com/commentary/strike/) called “Strike,” for his musical “Commentary: the Musical,” a musical libretto to the DVD commentary soundtrack for Dr. Horrible. The lyrics are very clever, but they end on a note which I believe is a fair summary of the results of that strike: > [@](#): > > As the fall turns into winter > There appears a bunch of splinter > Groups who wonder what this Inter- > Net is like > While the tide is turning tepid > And the town is feeling trepid- > Atious time for us to step up > To the mic > We’ve got all these dynamite plots to use > It’s time to light the fuse or lose > The strike > > JOSS > And lose we did > Impressively > > ALL > Slunk back to our offices > Declaring victory > If you need your residual > Why did you all agree > > I’m proud I walked the line > With writers, fans and friends of mine > But now I ask what was is finally about > And years from now I’ll tell my tyke > Just what it feels like to strike > Out I think this is an example of a strike in which the initial optimism of sweeping change was replaced with the realization that the prospects for actual change were much smaller, and ultimately the union accepted a much less robust proposal than they had first contemplated. I contend this happens when the striking group overestimates its value to the industry. In the case of the WGA strike, the surge of reality (non-scripted) TV productions greatly weakened their bargaining position. In this strike, the ease of replacing SAG-AFTRA voice talent with non-union voice talent is similarly detrimental. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103/140 "2017-07-02T23:39:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …all of this information is available on the SAG website. I’ve already cited it, I’ve already posted a link to the non-struck titles. I’ll do it again for you. > […] > And these games are struck: That “Struck” list is sort of weird. For example, it lists _Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare_ (2007), _Shadowrun: Hong Kong_ (2015) and LEGO Star Wars (latest possible is 2016 for _The Force Awakens_) for a strike that started in October 2016. Beyond that, it’s really just a small handful of publishers with most of the list dominated by Disney Character Voices, Voiceworks Productions and Formosa Interactive with a smattering of Activision, EA and WB titles among others. > [@](#): > > Yes: I think it is positive that there are games are in production and that people are working. Do you think differently? Well we are all entitled to our own opinions. I think it’s more positive than zero games but far less positive than the potential number of titles judging from the length of the struck list. Half a cake is better than none but still worse than a full cake. Though, really, if that strike list is accurate than it pretty much has zero impact on most people’s gaming unless you really like Disney products. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-on-strike-against-videogame-producers-since-oct-2016/790103.md?page=8)