# SAG-AFTRA strike is a go! (Tentative agreement to end strike 2023-11-08) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002 "2023-07-13T20:31:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/41 "2023-07-17T04:51:04Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > What about all the foreign productions? Korean drama is already huge on Netflix, and only going to get bigger. …what about them? I almost exclusively only really watch Korean and Japanese dramas at the moment. But they aren’t going to cut it prime-time. It won’t replace the soaps. You aren’t going to replace the Rookie, Yellowstone, The Young and the Restless, the Good Doctor, NCIS, with Delightfully Deceitful or My Perfect Stranger. That isn’t going to happen. Netflix will probably increase the amount of Korean dramas which will in turn screw-over Korean writers and actors and directors because the streamers rip everybody off. But that will only do so much. And if it isn’t already in production it isn’t as if they can just magic-up new shows. But the streamers are just a fragment of the industry that is being affected here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/42 "2023-07-17T05:06:35Z")
Interestingly, more folks are unionized in [South Korea](https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Asia-Insight/South-Korea-cage-match-President-Yoon-vs.-the-unions) than in the [United States](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf). I don’t know how heavily the South Korean film/streaming industry is unionized; but if US streaming services step up their demand for SK shows, that can only help the unions make progress. And I hope that US unions will reach out and coordinate with them. The idea that US actors and writers aren’t in a position of power is hilarious bollocks. Wait, a single Christian film **which is probably a union set** made more money in certain weeks than Indiana Jones and the Temple of Hospice Care, and somehow that’s evidence that union sets are going away? What the actual even? I’m thrilled that organized labor is making a comeback in the US, and I’m hopeful that the trend continues. Power is far too heavily on the side of corporations these days; workers need a voice. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/43 "2023-07-17T05:33:04Z")
I guess I’m biased because 100% of my viewing nowadays is streaming, largely foreign shows. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/44 "2023-07-17T05:51:05Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > How many exactly? And how are you imagining they would slot into the existing ecosystem? There are 168,000 members of IATSE. How many of them do you think would cross the picket line to take part in a non-union production? > > What about all the foreign productions? Korean drama is already huge on Netflix, and only going to get bigger. No need to look at foreign language shows. Fully British productions will not be affected. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/45 "2023-07-17T07:14:45Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > No need to look at foreign language shows. Fully British productions will not be affected Some of those need subtitles, too… ---
**Author:** ![cincinnatus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cincinnatus/32/7990_2.png) [@cincinnatus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cincinnatus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/46 "2023-07-17T10:37:27Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And yet Disney is seriously considering dumping (selling) the ABC broadcast network along with other assets. By the way, if Disney sells ABC, I may started watching ABC mornings again. I quit when every other guest or story seemed to promote a Disney production. Or maybe it was just me reading it wrong. No matter, I quit ABC. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/47 "2023-07-17T12:37:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > No need to look at foreign language shows. Fully British productions will not be affected. Indeed, _House of the Dragon_ Season 2 is still filming in the UK, and the British actors’ union is apparently legally prohibited from striking in solidarity with SAG-AFTRA. > **[‘House of the Dragon’ Can Continue Filming in U.K. Amid SAG-AFTRA Strike Due...](https://variety.com/2023/tv/global/house-of-the-dragon-season-2-filming-sag-strike-hbo-1235669404/)** > > 'House of the Dragon' can technically continue filming in the U.K. due to local union rules. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/48 "2023-07-17T19:35:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Some of those need subtitles, too… _Snerk._ I turn on cc on most UK shows I watch. Even when I understand the accent, they freakin’ mumble. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/49 "2023-07-17T19:54:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I sense the strike will be a long one. There are way too many entertainment sources out there and if there’s nothing to see in the theaters, then there are a ton of entertainment choices to stream. I’m thinking that some 2nd tier streaming platforms are going to see a nice boost in revenue during the strike. When people run out of stuff to watch on their primary streaming platforms, they may sign up for platforms that they haven’t tried before. If someone’s normal batch of streaming platforms no longer add new content, they may sign up for platforms they never tried before since it would all be new to them. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/50 "2023-07-17T20:45:48Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I’m thinking that some 2nd tier streaming platforms are going to see a nice boost in revenue during the strike. I think you are right, I look at the three main services that I already subscribe to and I have literally years of content to get through before I ever start to notice the lack of new stuff. Heck, I just re-watched “Boardwalk Empire” and there are several shows of that quality which I’d be happy to revisit. Feel free to strike if you think it’ll help but I won’t feel the pinch at all and nor will many viewers. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/51 "2023-07-17T22:23:45Z")
> > > > Chris Stephens @ChrisStephensMD ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/52 "2023-07-17T22:47:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > this isn’t correct by any stretch of the imagination. Hollywood has ground to a halt. Everything has stopped. And more importantly, the writers and actors have _nothing to lose_. The last five years or so have already basically rolled back many of the gains and protections they had won over the years. What I meant is that they have lost a lot of bargaining power compared to the past. Notice that the ‘Star’ system in Hollywood is fading. Actors are becoming more interchangeable. And in the past when your entertainment options were the big networks on cable and movies in the theater, losing your favorite shows and actors was a big deal. I probably watch more Youtube than I do television. And we don’t even have cable TV any more. Just streaming. And there are so many shows out there to watch that a temporary halt in production will not have the same effect as it used to. People are just going to explore the back catalogs of the Streaming networks more, or watch more stuff on the Internet. Back in the day, an actor’s strike meant no new movies, reruns on the main cable channels, and that was about it, It was a drive to Blockbuster if you wanted to watch something else, and TV shows were more of a cultural/water cooler thing back then, so people really missed them. Now? Fans of certain shows will be annoyed at delays between seasons, but there is plenty to watch. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Picked up for a single season back in 2015, apparently. Not exactly a model for success. That’s not the only show. There was also Scam School, and I think he has another negotiatiin going on now for taking ano5er series to Netflix or some other streamer. His prtner Andrew Mayne has done even better with specials during Shark Week on Discovery, etc. People like Veritasium have complained that they prefer long-form content but Youtube keeps pushing them to do short, viral content. They could easily make the jump to streaming. I can think of dozens of Youtubers who have content that could translate into a streaming series. And of course they don’t have to leave Youtube to do it, because I don’t believe they have exclusive rights. Almost every show I watch already duplicates their content on Nebula, Patreon, Twitter, or other services because they don’t want to be completely controlled by Youtube’s algorithms. Moving to a streming network would probably thrill most of them. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/53 "2023-07-17T23:24:17Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Notice that the ‘Star’ system in Hollywood is fading. Actors are becoming more interchangeable. Yeah, I think the bottom people on a movie should be paid more, but the top people less. Take 19 million of that 20 million you were going to give Tom Cruise and split it up amongst eveyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/54 "2023-07-17T23:26:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Fans of certain shows will be annoyed at delays between seasons, but there is plenty to watch. And there are already often years between seasons. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/55 "2023-07-17T23:34:08Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > And there are already often years between seasons. This is one way streaming platforms have helped audiences not be so attached to their shows. The breaks between seasons are often irregular. There’s no point in expecting to watch the next season at a particular time in the future. Often they don’t announce when the new season is coming, or if it will be coming at all. Maybe it’ll be here in a few months, next year, couple of years, or cancelled altogether. Viewers get used to just watching whatever is available at the moment. If it’s the next season of their favorite show, great! Otherwise, just pick something else. If their favorite show never comes back, oh well, that’s the way the new entertainment world works. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/56 "2023-07-17T23:34:49Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yeah, I think the bottom people on a movie should be paid more, but the top people less. Take 19 million of that 20 million you were going to give Tom Cruise and split it up amongst eveyone else. Then Tom Cruise won’t star in your movie and I won’t pay money to see it, because I feel the Best Boy has been phoning it in her last few pictures. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/57 "2023-07-17T23:43:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yeah, I think the bottom people on a movie should be paid more, but the top people less. Take 19 million of that 20 million you were going to give Tom Cruise and split it up amongst eveyone else. Orrrrr … Take it from the execs making 10 times that? Pretty common strike breaking tactic to blame the top earning workers instead of the owners. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/58 "2023-07-17T23:45:55Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Viewers get used to just watching whatever is available at the moment. If it’s the next season of their favorite show, great! Otherwise, just pick something else. If their favorite show never comes back, oh well, that’s the way the new entertainment world works. Sometimes when a new season of a show comes out I have already forgotten that I ever watched the first season. For instance, seeing that season two of _[Creamerie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creamerie)_ was out, it took me a while to realize that I had watched season one. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/59 "2023-07-18T00:17:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What I meant is that they have lost a lot of bargaining power compared to the past. Notice that the ‘Star’ system in Hollywood is fading. Actors are becoming more interchangeable. And in the past when your entertainment options were the big networks on cable and movies in the theater, losing your favorite shows and actors was a big deal. …the “star system” isn’t relevant here. Because SAG has over 160,000 members. _That’s_ bargaining power. It doesn’t matter if you believe that actors are interchangeable or not. None of those interchangeable actors are _working_. Thats a big deal. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I probably watch more Youtube than I do television. And we don’t even have cable TV any more. Just streaming. And there are so many shows out there to watch that a temporary halt in production will not have the same effect as it used to. People are just going to explore the back catalogs of the Streaming networks more, or watch more stuff on the Internet. The last SAG-AFTRA strike was in 1978. Over forty years ago. So its disingenuous to argue that “a temporary halt in production will not have the same effect as it used to” when its been nearly half-a-century since the last time they walked off the job. Its a very different time now and the stakes are so-much-higher. Everything is pretty much fucked right now. Writers and actors are getting paid less than ever and if the studios have their way they get cut to the bone. Its not as if they had a choice here. It’s either go on strike now…or everything gets even worse. I don’t think its unreasonable to expect that the very least we can do for writers and actors is to make sure they get paid a living wage. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Back in the day, an actor’s strike meant no new movies, reruns on the main cable channels, and that was about it, It was a drive to Blockbuster if you wanted to watch something else, and TV shows were more of a cultural/water cooler thing back then, so people really missed them. Now? Fans of certain shows will be annoyed at delays between seasons, but there is plenty to watch. The strikes aren’t directed at the fans. They are directed at the _shareholders_. It’s the shareholders who will get antsy if the strikes continue for months. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > That’s not the only show. Its the single example you chose to use. And I’m sure that the streamers will rush into production a few Youtube shows. And they will buy a few more Korean dramas and a few UK shows. And the networks will play reruns. And they are gonna be fine for a few months. But you can only do so much here. And the thing is: the writers and actors are already experienced at going without. The reality on the ground is that it is already impossible for most people to make a living wage in Hollywood any more. The showrunner for the Bear had to borrow money to get a suit for the WGA Awards ceremony (and won best new comedy series). Actors on Orange is the New Black (at the time Netflix’s most-watched series) couldn’t afford cab fare and had to work second jobs. This isn’t the gig economy. The writers and actors aren’t just “creating content.” They build entire worlds that we get lost in. They build characters that we fall in love with…and sometimes hate with the burning passion of a thousand white-hot suns. I love watching many different shows on Youtube. But that’s often an entirely different thing than experiencing a TV show or movie. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yeah, I think the bottom people on a movie should be paid more, but the top people less. Take 19 million of that 20 million you were going to give Tom Cruise and split it up amongst eveyone else. Take the money from the Zaslov’s and the Iger’s. The actors earn their money. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You aren’t going to replace the Rookie, Yellowstone, The Young and the Restless, the Good Doctor, NCIS, with Delightfully Deceitful or My Perfect Stranger. That isn’t going to happen. Just a correction on this: soap opera actors are _exempt_ from striking. Daytime actors are members of SAG-AFTRA: however they are working under Netcode which covers some unscripted, some primetime shows, and soap operas. So Young and the Restless actors are obliged to “legally fulfil the obligations” of the Netcode contract, which expires in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002/60 "2023-07-18T18:58:09Z")
I was in a blue-collar union in one of the few union strongholds in the country, and for me the biggest benefit was that the union did the job-hunting for me. Thanks to how seasonal and varied construction work is you often get hired to work on one particular project and then laid off when the project is done. When that happens you go “on the bench” and the union handles unemployment, keeps you covered by health insurance, and helps find you a new job. What folks, especially Digger11, don’t realize is the vast majority of writers and actors on strike right now have lives closer to my blue collar job and are far from hollywood stars. They’re struggling to get by and often don’t make enough money to qualify for union healthcare. Gigs are few and far between and they’re lucky if the pay is good enough to make up for the lack of work in between. And it’s these guys who are most at risk from the AI-powered proposals, like replacing extras with digital scans or using ChatGPT to write first-pass screenplays. That’s the bread and butter work that keeps the lowest rungs of actors and writers above water. We’ve already seen the damage to movies from non-union VFX houses, where it’s cheaper to get overworked artists to digitally add a prop to a scene than hire a union propmaster, and cheaper to have actors act in front of a green screen than hire a union set dresser. Studios will continue to cheap out and pay as little money as possible to the writers, actors, and artists actually doing the work while still reaping record profits for themselves. That’s not right, it’s not fair, and that’s what this strike is about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sag-aftra-strike-is-a-go-tentative-agreement-to-end-strike-2023-11-08/987002.md?page=4)