# Sage Rat on Slavery **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843 "2016-01-22T02:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/221 "2016-01-24T03:47:23Z")
Just read that article, and it’s indeed very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/222 "2016-01-24T03:55:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > So now we are going to argue over "almost no"data. > > As I’ve said before, coming to the pit reveals peoples true nature. It’s kind of sad really, to see what people are really like. I’ll remember this the next time you are in GD pretending to be nice. And your true nature, as it turns out, is a whiny little fuck. Sack up or stay out of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/223 "2016-01-24T04:00:01Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The cotton gin was absolutely central. Without this rapid method for separating the cotton staple from the seeds (especially for the shorter staple cotton used in America), cotton would have been far less profitable, and would have been unlikely to become the central driving force in the Southern economy. The rise and the spread of cotton production followed fairly quickly in the wake of Whitney’s invention, and American cotton production basically doubled every ten years for the next half-century… > > Firstly, if only one in four Southerners had slaves, even that figure by itself suggests that you needed greater than average wealth to be a slave-owner. We’ve already established that most Southerners supported the institution of slavery at some level, and if they didn’t have slaves, it generally wasn’t because of moral objections. The majority of whites in the South could not afford slaves… Thank You So, a few more questions if I can: 1- I understand everything you’ve explained. I read the part you cited about economics form those authors but really didn’t understand it fully. So, another claim I’ve often heard: The prosperity of the USA and the prosperity of the Roman Empire would of both been impossible without the large volume of slave labor. On one level that sounds correct, but, is it? 2- Which was “worse” for lack of a better term. To be a slave on a plantation or a slave on a small farm? (I’m not saying I find either situation acceptable or correct, not in any way). ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/224 "2016-01-24T04:04:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And your true nature, as it turns out, is a whiny little fuck. > > Sack up or stay out of the Pit. Me: Overly sensitive and complains too much You: Hostile, arrogant, bitter, condescending, smug and just plain mean True nature, indeed ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/225 "2016-01-24T04:10:04Z")
Robert, please open another thread about your hurt feelings so nobody else has to participate unless they want to. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/226 "2016-01-24T04:13:26Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Robert, please open another thread about your hurt feelings so nobody else has to participate unless they want to. I just read your comments and, indeed, they are very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/227 "2016-01-24T04:23:42Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Me: Overly sensitive and complains too much You left out “stupid” and “more than a little bigoted.” But then, I guess that’s obvious about you in any forum, not just the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/228 "2016-01-24T04:31:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You left out “stupid” and “more than a little bigoted.” > > But then, I guess that’s obvious about you in any forum, not just the Pit. Ok, let’s assume I am “more than a little bigoted”. Certainly that is true to some very large degree. But I’m nice to people, I’m a good person to be around, I have friends and I help people. You, on the other hand, are: hostile, arrogant, bitter, condescending, smug and just plain mean. IDk, maybe you are different offline… ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/229 "2016-01-24T04:32:31Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > The prosperity of the USA and the prosperity of the Roman Empire \*\*would of \*\*both been impossible without the large volume of slave labor. FFS, it’s _would have_. Not _would of_. Stop doing this. And don’t say it’s just a typo, because you do this shit all the time. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/230 "2016-01-24T04:34:38Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > FFS, it’s _would have_. Not _would of_. > > Stop doing this. And don’t say it’s just a typo, because you do this shit all the time. > > Jesus. I would have thought you weren’t paying attention, but, it seems you are. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/231 "2016-01-24T07:40:04Z")
Oh, **Robert**. If you were a nice person, I wouldn’t be mean to you. The sad fact is, you’re an asshole, and you’re too dumb to realize it. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/232 "2016-01-24T08:03:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, **Robert**. If you were a nice person, I wouldn’t be mean to you. The sad fact is, you’re an asshole, and you’re too dumb to realize it. Actually I do realize. I’m bigoted towards religious people, I have mildly racist and sexist views about things… yes… but lots of people are a lot lot LOT worse than I am and because I know that I’m mildly racist and sexist, and arrogant, I actually take that into account and leave that stuff to the side when I deal with real life people. I actually do have a lot of friends, I actually am a good friend to have and I really do spend hours, weekly, helping people with small tasks and large. None of the people who know me would describe me as sexist or racist or arrogant… because my love for people and my love for life is big, bigger than any of my negative qualities. Am I angry and arrogant and irrational, here? Yes. So, what about you… you’ve seen some opinions I have that you don’t like and decided I was an asshole and too stupid to know it. Well that sounds pretty Bigoted to me. And it’s not just me. Even though you think I’m stupid, I’m not. I’m observant. You’re cold, and harsh, to anyone who you strongly disagree with. What I mean by that is you can inflict with a handful of words more hurt feeling than most people can achieve with a whole paragraph. I’m sure you are aware of this trait. Maybe you think of it as a skill. IDK. You are certainly well practiced at it. So I guess my question is, how is it that you think you are better than me? I have some negative opinions about some groups of people. You are mean and hostile. Excessively so. And you still think you are “better” than me. Despite all of this I still can see you are a smart guy and I’m pretty sure in real life you are much much more than the cold and harsh guy I’ve described here. I actually really mean that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/233 "2016-01-24T08:49:14Z")
For fuck’s sake, take it to another thread, you whiny wanker. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/234 "2016-01-24T12:03:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > For fuck’s sake, take it to another thread, you whiny wanker. At some point, hopefully soon, he’ll reach the Pit’s very generous thread-shitting standard, and Miller will coldly and harshly squash him like a little bug. Or give him a moderator note. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/235 "2016-01-24T17:31:11Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I actually do have a lot of friends, I actually am a good friend to have and I really do spend hours, weekly, helping people with small tasks and large. None of the people who know me would describe me as sexist or racist or arrogant… because my love for people and my love for life is big, bigger than any of my negative qualities. Nobody cares. > [@](#): > > So, what about you… you’ve seen some opinions I have that you don’t like and decided I was an asshole and too stupid to know it. Well that sounds pretty Bigoted to me. Disliking someone because they’re an asshole is not bigotry, you fucking imbecile. > [@](#): > > And it’s not just me. Even though you think I’m stupid, I’m not. Most stupid people think that about themselves. > [@](#): > > You’re cold, and harsh, to anyone who you strongly disagree with. What I mean by that is you can inflict with a handful of words more hurt feeling than most people can achieve with a whole paragraph. Flattery isn’t going to get you anywhere. > [@](#): > > So I guess my question is, how is it that you think you are better than me? I have some negative opinions about some groups of people. You are mean and hostile. Excessively so. And you still think you are “better” than me. Well, I’m not a bigot. That’s a pretty big one. I’m smart enough not to run my mouth on subjects I’m demonstrably ignorant about. I’m only an asshole to people who deserve it, like yourself. Oh, and I don’t whine for pages when I show up in the forum _specifically designated for insulting other posters_ and get insulted. Again, if your delicate little feels can’t handle some harsh language, fuck off to MPSIMS or something. > [@](#): > > Despite all of this I still can see you are a smart guy and I’m pretty sure in real life you are much much more than the cold and harsh guy I’ve described here. I actually really mean that. There are no fewer fucks in the world, than the number of fucks I give about your opinion of me. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/236 "2016-01-24T18:02:28Z")
**Miller** , that post would be an early contender for “Post of the Year”, but as a mod, you are disqualified from contention. Sorry, but it’s there in the fine print. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/237 "2016-01-24T18:09:40Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > It’s a shame we don’t have much evidence for the period, but I think it’s pretty safe to conclude that most concentration camp guards were pretty decent people who only wanted their charges to behave. Probably there were cruel, barbaric ones, and it’s right to condemn them, but I think for the most part 99% were good, decent people. OK, there were punishments, but we have to remember that it was a vilolent age, and people were used to that kind of treatment. While in general, I approve of the withering sarcasm of your post, I am reminded of at least one concentration camp survivor who would actually (non-sarcastically) somewhat agree: Viktor Frankl. [_“Frankl also concludes that there are only two races of men, decent men and indecent. No society is free of either of them, and thus there were “decent” Nazi guards and “indecent” prisoners, most notably the kapo who would torture and abuse their fellow prisoners for personal gain.”_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man's_Search_for_Meaning#Experiences_in_a_concentration_camp) ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/238 "2016-01-24T19:27:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It would be interesting to know if there is even one person who rationalizes slavery, who does not _also_ believe that those enslaved are “naturally fitted” (by genetics, ‘culture,’ or some combination of the two) for slavery. In the grand Rat tradition of Venturing To Guess, I would VTG that there is not. > > In other words, Rat becoming your slave would not shed any light on the topic of whether slavery is defensible, because (presumably) Rat belongs to a demographic group which is NOT “naturally fitted” for slavery. When I got done with him, he would be. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/239 "2016-01-24T19:32:48Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > While in general, I approve of the withering sarcasm of your post, I am reminded of at least one concentration camp survivor who would actually (non-sarcastically) somewhat agree: Viktor Frankl. > > [_“Frankl also concludes that there are only two races of men, decent men and indecent. No society is free of either of them, and thus there were “decent” Nazi guards and “indecent” prisoners, most notably the kapo who would torture and abuse their fellow prisoners for personal gain.”_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man's_Search_for_Meaning#Experiences_in_a_concentration_camp) Christopher Brownings Ordinary Men also examines how regular non-fanatical Germans could become willing mass murderers. Its impossible to know what we are capable of until we are put in a situation. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843/240 "2016-01-24T19:33:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, I’m not a bigot. That’s a pretty big one. I’m smart enough not to run my mouth on subjects I’m demonstrably ignorant about. I’m only an asshole to people who deserve it, like yourself. Oh, and I don’t whine for pages when I show up in the forum _specifically designated for insulting other posters_ and get insulted. Again, if your delicate little feels can’t handle some harsh language, fuck off to MPSIMS or something. > > There are no fewer fucks in the world, than the number of fucks I give about your opinion of me. Jeepers, **Miller** , I feel like doing something to severely annoy you just so I can enjoy the beauty of another of these epic smackdowns. Yes, I know, that would be wrong. And bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-on-slavery/743843.md?page=13)