# Sage Rat, your time is up **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 22, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807 "2020-01-22T17:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/1 "2020-01-22T17:49:15Z")
Hello **Sage Rat** , Mr and Mrs North America, and all the ships at sea! Back in January of 2017, you made a bet with the now banned **Okrahoma** in [this post:](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19916625&postcount=77) > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/77): > > > [@Okrahoma](#): > > > > Ok. By what date? 2 to 1 odds. If by that date he resigns, I’ll pay $200. If he doesn’t, you pay $100. To make it nice and not-mercenary, we can make the recipient the winner’s favorite charity. > > Let’s go with 3 years from now. January 12, 2020. Bets off if he’s impeached/killed/etc. Alas, Okrahoma is now with the banned. He’s struck up the banned. He’s part of the banned of brothers. But he’s banned and determined to collect on the wager nonetheless. Because I served as an escrow service for a previous wager involving him and another poster, he reached out to me and asked if I would be willing to post a reminder here, on the off chance that **Sage Rat** had forgotten the end date for this had come and gone. I agreed. He asks that the $100 donation be made to the [Family Research Council](https://frc.org) or [Freedom Watch](https://www.freedomwatchusa.org/). Or, if you prefer, although not technically a charitable donation, he will accept a donation to Trump’s 2020 campaign as satisfying the obligation. He asks for a scanned receipt for the charity donation as proof. If you DM me, I will supply his e-mail address. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/2 "2020-01-22T17:56:42Z")
**Bricker**! You didn’t fall off the edge of the world! Are you back, or is this a one-off? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/3 "2020-01-22T18:02:26Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > **Bricker**! You didn’t fall off the edge of the world! Are you back, or is this a one-off? This is likely a one-off, or a few-off. I’m cruising through the forums now, but my intention is not to resume regular participation. I’ve sent Okrahoma a link to this thread, so, really, my job here is done. So I’m just going to wander around, murmur a bit at what you’ve done with the place, and fade back into legendary greatness of old. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/4 "2020-01-22T18:06:18Z")
Isn’t the bet off since Trump was impeached before 1/12/20? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/5 "2020-01-22T18:14:50Z")
It does look like the bet is off, reading the link. > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/77): > > Let’s go with 3 years from now. January 12, 2020. Bets off if he’s impeached/killed/etc. Trump is impeached. Probably won’t be forced out of office, but he is impeached. Welcome back **Bricker** , hope you at least pop in and out from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/6 "2020-01-22T18:20:17Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It does look like the bet is off, reading the link. > > Trump is impeached. Probably won’t be forced out of office, but he is impeached. > > Welcome back **Bricker** , hope you at least pop in and out from time to time. Thanks, and wow – can’t believe I missed that. I assume Okrahoma is reading this, but I’ll drop him a note to point out the impeached exclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/7 "2020-01-22T18:21:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Isn’t the bet off since Trump was impeached before 1/12/20? I think in this context they meant impeached as in booted from office. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/8 "2020-01-22T18:29:42Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I think in this context they meant impeached as in booted from office. In the 2017 thread, some people agreed: > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/56): > > Bah. Legalistic quibbling. When people say “Impeached” they mean removed from office, not just charged. But others did not: > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/78): > > I don’t. And when we’re debating an actual impeachment, it would behoove us to use the proper term, too. There was this exchange: > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/53): > > > [@Okrahoma](#): > > > > That’s why I added “successfully”. > > Yes, I know. And you’re wrong. Impeachment begins and ends in the House. A successful impeachment is one that passes in the House. An unsuccessful impeachment is one that does not pass in the House. It’s flat out wrong to say that an impeachment that passed in the House is somehow “unsuccessful”. What the Senate does is a separate issue. > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/84): > > This is silly. The word “successful” is nearly meaningless in that sentence, according to your interpretation. Are unsuccessful impeachments super-common, any time someone introduces a bill of impeachment and it goes nowhere? > > Of course impeachment begins and ends in the house–but the purpose of an impeachment is to remove the president from office. You succeed at your action by accomplishing your aims. If you impeach the president and the president is not removed from office, you haven’t accomplished your aims. It’s only a successful impeachment if the president is removed from office. I obviously can’t waive any claims Okrahoma might make, and I’ll pass on any commentary he has. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/9 "2020-01-22T18:38:00Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I think in this context they meant impeached as in booted from office. EXCEPT American history is rife with politicians resigning after impeachment to avoid trial. Plus if they meant impeached and convicted they should have written “and convicted” ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/10 "2020-01-22T18:43:25Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > I think in this context they meant impeached as in booted from office. Maybe. But it Post 96 Okrahoma specifically differentiates between impeachment and removal from office. > [@Name the Impeachment Date for President Trump](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/name-the-impeachment-date-for-president-trump/776879/96): > > Once again, I have to repeat. If you were a Republican, would you want GOP to be forever known as the only party, ever, that had a President that was impeached and removed from office? > > That’s a permanent, and enormous, black mark. Cannot ever be removed. It would be utter stupidity for Republicans to inflict it on themselves. In spite of what a lot of posters here may think, Republican leadership is not stupid. It won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/11 "2020-01-22T18:46:45Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/12 "2020-01-22T18:47:05Z")
Trump has been impeached. There is nothing the Senate can do that can nullify that. Regardless of what people ‘understand’ impeachment to mean, it does have a specific meaning that does not change. Trump has been impeached, and he will always have been impeached. Some may argue that ‘impeachment’ in the context of the bet is ‘understood’ to mean ‘removed from office’. Suppose two people are playing a game. They both ‘understand’ the rules. Perhaps one person understands explicitly as written, with knowledge of the definitions of the words making up the rules, and the other ‘understands’ the rules not as-written, but by ‘tradition’. Perhaps both parties ‘understand’ the ‘traditional’ usage instead of the explicit usage. (How many people play Monopoly where landing on Free Parking results in a windfall, vs. where landing on Free Parking is merely a no-penalty resting place?) If a dispute arises, then the players need to turn to the explicit rules. In the case of a bet, one may consider it a ‘contract’. If a contract is poorly written, then the parties must abide by the text as much as they must do if it was well-written. The bet specifically stated impeachment as a condition that nullifies the bet. Trump was impeached. Therefore, the bet is nullified. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/13 "2020-01-22T18:47:13Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > EXCEPT American history is rife with politicians resigning after impeachment to avoid trial. Name 3. Of the rifiest, please. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/14 "2020-01-22T18:53:15Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > Maybe. But it Post 96 Okrahoma specifically differentiates between impeachment and removal from office. Yes, but in post 98, it sounds to me like “impeached” has been used as shorthand for impeachment and removal, given the aside about pedants: > [@](#): > > As I said, having a Republican President as the only one ever in history that was successfully impeached (for the pedants, impeached and removed from office), I guess it depends on how legalistic/how much of a textualist you want to be about this. Technically and textually, bets are off. There is no question about that to me. From my perspective, the spirit of the bet used the word “impeached” to mean “impeached and removed from office” as that’s the only way it makes sense in context to me. But I trust **Sage Rat** will let us know his intent. (Oddly, I had no recollection of participating in that thread, but I was totally wrong about Trump not getting technically impeached. Good thing I didn’t bet! :)) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/15 "2020-01-22T19:01:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’ll pass on any commentary he has. Not to Junior Mod but you should check with Tuba or somebody before posting any commentary. Acting as a banned person’s proxy might get you banned as well. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/16 "2020-01-22T19:04:21Z")
In the context of the thread, ISTM that “impeached” meant “removed from office” But that is up to **Sage Rat** , and I wouldn’t think any less of him if he believes the bet is off. Hi, **Bricker** - I was going to bet you five bucks you weren’t going to post again, but that might be against the rules. [But maybe that’s only in GD and P&E](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=887710). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/17 "2020-01-22T19:26:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes, but in post 98, it sounds to me like “impeached” has been used as shorthand for impeachment and removal, given the aside about pedants: > > I guess it depends on how legalistic/how much of a textualist you want to be about this. Technically and textually, bets are off. There is no question about that to me. From my perspective, the spirit of the bet used the word “impeached” to mean “impeached and removed from office” as that’s the only way it makes sense in context to me. But I trust **Sage Rat** will let us know his intent. > > (Oddly, I had no recollection of participating in that thread, but I was totally wrong about Trump not getting technically impeached. Good thing I didn’t bet! :)) Hum, that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/18 "2020-01-22T19:27:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In the context of the thread, ISTM that “impeached” meant “removed from office” But that is up to **Sage Rat** , and I wouldn’t think any less of him if he believes the bet is off. > > Hi, **Bricker** - I was going to bet you five bucks you weren’t going to post again, but that might be against the rules. [But maybe that’s only in GD and P&E](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=887710). > > Regards, > Shodan I appreciate the link to the new rules. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/19 "2020-01-22T19:28:53Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Not to Junior Mod but you should check with Tuba or somebody before posting any commentary. Acting as a banned person’s proxy might get you banned as well. Huh. By that measure, even this thread may amount to prohibited communication. Well, that’s it from me, then. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807/20 "2020-01-22T19:57:51Z")
Well, I don’t know for sure. I could’ve sworn that one of the rules stickies mentioned acting as a proxy is verboten but neither the ones in ATMB nor the one in MPSIMS currently mention that. You should check with someone currently on staff. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sage-rat-your-time-is-up/846807.md?page=2)