# Sail-driven Ships: Could they be Revived? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133 "2008-05-21T18:20:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/1 "2008-05-21T18:20:22Z")
Now that bunker oil (ship’s fuel) has tripled in price, would sail-driven freighters be feasible? I am thinking of ships with perhaps 10 masts (120’ high) with schooner rigged sails-say 60,000 sq. ft. of sail area. Such a ship could sail at perhaps 12 knots, with a good following wind-achievable in the “trade winds” regions of the tropics. Would the economics work out? True, you need a larger crew, but you are using almost no bunker oil. Transit times would be longer-and difficult 9if you are sailing a N-S route). Has anyone looked into reviving sail-powered ships? I know that very late in the age of sail (ca 1900), some enormous schooner-rigged ships were built-one was the Thomas B. Lawson-were these ships financially viable? Or would the high cost of labor doom such ships? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/2 "2008-05-21T18:39:20Z")
Sailing ships weren’t replaced by diesel ships, they were replaced by coal burning steam ships. So if oil becomes too expensive there are plenty of other alternatives before sail. Of course, it’s likely that the coal will first be converted into hydrocarbons ([Fischer–Tropsch process - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch)), and so our current oil burning ships will keep working with minimal modification. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/3 "2008-05-21T18:54:59Z")
[Wind-assisted ships may be the wave of the future](http://www.primidi.com/2005/03/07.html). > [@](#): > > Several companies around the world are experimenting with wind-assisted ships, which would reduce fuel consumption at a time where fuel can represent up to 60 percent of the running costs of operating a ship. But another goal is to reduce pollution: the toxic emission volume of the world trade fleet is roughly equivalent to the U.S. one today. In “The new age of sail,” New Scientist describes a ship that will be partially pulled by a high-tech kite flying at an altitude of up to 500 meters where winds are more stable than at sea level. The German designers, who tested a prototype last year, estimate that such a hybrid sailing ship would see a 50 percent reduction of its fuel consumption. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/4 "2008-05-21T20:46:19Z")
[Some](http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/beluga-shipping.html) [more](http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/05/study-finds-use.html) on modern sail assist technologies. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/5 "2008-05-21T20:58:55Z")
I spent a week this past summer learning how to sail a traditionally rigged schooner. Jesus Christ, what a pain in the ass it used to be to get anything anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/6 "2008-05-21T21:01:39Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Has anyone looked into reviving sail-powered ships? I know that very late in the age of sail (ca 1900), some enormous schooner-rigged ships were built-one was the Thomas B. Lawson-were these ships financially viable? Or would the high cost of labor doom such ships? [/QUOTE] I would’nt bother looking into sail power , its probably easier to go with wind turbine and run the ship on an electrical drive and have a diesel back up for becalmed waters. Declan ---
**Author:** ![50million](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/9fc348/32.png) [@50million](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/50million)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/7 "2008-05-21T21:05:30Z")
How about nuclear? I’m sure it’s kinda expensive, but does anyone have a guess as to how expensive? Or would it even be allowed for a private company to have that technology? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/8 "2008-05-21T21:21:20Z")
I don’t suppose galley slaves are any good for deep-ocean voyages? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/9 "2008-05-21T21:23:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I don’t suppose galley slaves are any good for deep-ocean voyages? [/QUOTE] You might be on to something here BG , all those convicts doing nothing in Jail , we just have to update the concept. Of course there will be resistance from people who want things done old school. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/10 "2008-05-21T23:01:41Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I don’t suppose galley slaves are any good for deep-ocean voyages? [/QUOTE] 20 minutes at best. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/11 "2008-05-22T04:16:00Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] 20 minutes at best. [/QUOTE] And how often? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/12 "2008-05-22T09:15:07Z")
[QUOTE=50million] How about nuclear? I’m sure it’s kinda expensive, but does anyone have a guess as to how expensive? Or would it even be allowed for a private company to have that technology? [/QUOTE] [These guys](http://www.atomicengines.com/ships.html) seem to think it’s feasible. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/13 "2008-05-22T16:06:24Z")
**Sail-driven Ships: Could they be Revived?** Why, are they unconscious? Try some smelling salts! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/14 "2008-05-22T16:14:24Z")
Jacques Cousteau’s [Turbosail](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbosail) supposedly made his ship 30% more fuel efficent, but didn’t catch on. Still, perhaps with increased fuel prices and use of oceanic shipping, someone will give the technology a second look. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/15 "2008-05-22T17:09:50Z")
> **[Maltese Falcon (yacht)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maltese_Falcon_(yacht))** > > Maltese Falcon is a full-rigged ship using DynaRig technology, which was built by Perini Navi in Tuzla, Istanbul, and commissioned by her first owner, Tom Perkins. She is one of the world's most complex and largest sailing yachts at 88 m (289 ft), similar in size to the Athena and Eos. The vessel dropped its BVI flag in 2008 and was purchased by Pleon Ltd, which put it to charter use. > The bare hull was built and launched on speculation in 1989-1990 by Perini Navi at its newly acquired shipyard i... ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/16 "2008-05-22T17:50:11Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] > **[Maltese Falcon (yacht)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maltese_Falcon_(yacht))** > > Maltese Falcon is a full-rigged ship using DynaRig technology, which was built by Perini Navi in Tuzla, Istanbul, and commissioned by her first owner, Tom Perkins. She is one of the world's most complex and largest sailing yachts at 88 m (289 ft), similar in size to the Athena and Eos. The vessel dropped its British Virgin Islands flag in 2008 and was purchased by Pleon Ltd, which put it to charter use. > The bare hull was built and launched on speculation in 1989-1990 by Perini Navi at its newly ... [/QUOTE] 😕 No such article. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/17 "2008-05-22T18:05:21Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] 😕 No such article. [/QUOTE] That’s because stupid php bulletin boards don’t include the last ) in the URL. [Maltese Falcon Sailing Yacht](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maltese_Falcon_(yacht)) Also: [Ships with Kites](http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/beluga-skysails-cargo-ship-kites.php) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/18 "2008-05-22T18:11:15Z")
[QUOTE=Declan] I would’nt bother looking into sail power , its probably easier to go with wind turbine and run the ship on an electrical drive and have a diesel back up for becalmed waters. Declan [/QUOTE] An interesting aspect of the wind turbine is that the optimal direction would presumably be to the windward. Heading into the wind increases the relative speed of the wind, which makes the turbine turn faster, which speeds up the boat, and so on. At some point a limit must be reached and the boat can go no faster. On the other hand if you want to go downwind I suppose that’s when you would have to use the motor. Unless the ship can be rigged for both traditional sail and turbine power. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/19 "2008-05-22T18:28:46Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] An interesting aspect of the wind turbine is that the optimal direction would presumably be to the windward. Heading into the wind increases the relative speed of the wind, which makes the turbine turn faster, which speeds up the boat, and so on. At some point a limit must be reached and the boat can go no faster. [/QUOTE] That and if you are heading into the wind, the turbine is creating resistance against which the forward motion of the vessel must move negating the power gained from the turbine. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133/20 "2008-05-22T18:32:56Z")
One of the problems with traditional sailing ships is how much sail you have compared to how much ship. On my schooner there was miles of sail and masts and rigging, and I couldn’t stand up in my cabin, which was mostly under a deck. To get enough cargo space to make much of a difference, you’d have to have a LOT of sail up there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sail-driven-ships-could-they-be-revived/450133.md?page=2)