I sailed with my parents in a 35’ ketch on the Chesapeake and its tributaries when I was in my early to mid teens. People do sail boats of that size across the Pacific. But I’d regard that activity as inherently dangerous: the Pacific a big, empty place, and if the least thing goes wrong, you’re a long way from help.
A typical American with a typical year of driving or being a passenger in motor vehicles had about a 1 in 10,000 chance of dying in a car crash last year.
You think crossing the Pacific in a small sailboat is safer than that? You gotta be kidding me. And certainly it’s as safe as it is (however safe that might be) partly because our government is willing to send airplanes and battleships and trained rescuers nearly 1000 miles offshore, at a cost surely in five or six figures, in order to bring you and your toddlers back to civilization when everything goes wrong.
Moochers and takers, that’s what these people are.
I’d love to see stats, if there are any semi-reliable ones, on what the failure rate is of Pacific crossings in a sailboat under 40’ long. Because I figure it’s something more like 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 than 1 in 10,000. I call bullshit on the whole idea that highway driving with your kid in the car seat in the back is anywhere near remotely as risky as taking them on an attempted Pacific crossing.
When I was 5 and my brother 7 we were given a 14 foot wooden hulled sailing dinghy [not this specific one, but fairly similar - I lived the handle mechanism for raising and dropping the centerboard!] It had a pair of oars, the sail and a tiny half horsepower trolling motor and gas tank. Pretty standard little boat used with larger sailboats as a gig. My grandfather had a 1930s vintage John Alden sailboat. At 8 I was given a sunfish. Silver Lake in western NY state is roughly .75 miles by roughly 3.5 miles in a sort of curved oval. At the time my brother and I and assorted cousins were growing up in the late 60s and early 70s there was both a sunfish and a lightening regatta with a kids unit. There was a YMCA camp with a passel of laser class dinghys as well [Camp Hough, been there for something like 100 years now!] It was not unusual to see kids from about 5 or 6 up through late teens on the lake in various vessels. [hell, my father and I used to exercise by swimming across the lake and back, and I used to go down the lake to visit cousins by packing my glasses and flipflops in a small bag and swim down the shore. It could end up faster and cooler than walking.] My brother got his first power boat at 10, and I got a 22 foot lugger type sailboat at about that age. I actually still have my sunfish in the barn. I much prefer sail to power, though there are a few 70/30 motorsailers out there that interest me, just no money :smack:
I have no problem with the parents heading off to the South Pacific in what I would consider an inadequately crewed vessel with inadequate damage control training, taking a pair of kids that young is irresponsible IMHO. Since they obviously had no need for the kids to get back for school, and probably didn’t have to get backto a job, the wisest course would have been to island hop the Aleutians and down the eastern coast of Asia, not hare off across some 3000 miles of pretty empty ocean. Only way I would head straight across is in something in the 55-63 foot range, and 2 pair of adults [or 3 pair of adults] so there would be someone paying attention and awake 24/7. [though I would prefer to island hop and go down the coast, as seeing some of those places along the way to Australia interests me. Empty ocean is pretty boring. ]
If the culture of fear existed in this country 300 years ago America would be a. very crowded sliver along the Eastern Seaboard.
Instead our forefathers were self reliant and went out explored and settled this country.
I wonder what happened?
I’m not sure you can say “culture of fear” when a reasonable person might say “What happens if the kid gets sick?”. “What happens if the boat breaks down?” … and the boat breaks down and the kid gets sick.
What really happened is that in the course of exploring the country, a large number of people died of starvation, dysentery, diptheria and random violence. If people went on ocean voyages, they made their last will and testaments first, because their odds of surviving the voyages were just that bad. But they did it while trying to build a better life – not while trying to satisfy some random whim of having an exciting life.
If you want adventure, do it before you have a couple of dependent pre-schoolers. Or wait until the kids at least have gotten to the point where they can stand watch on a sailboat. If nothing else, I can’t imagine dealing with the diaper rash in a marine environment. What do you do, slap marine varnish on it?
Worst-case scenario, they call for help. That’s what they did, and it was a legitimate, reasonable response.
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What really happened is that in the course of exploring the country, a large number of people died of starvation, dysentery, diptheria and random violence. If people went on ocean voyages, they made their last will and testaments first, because their odds of surviving the voyages were just that bad. But they did it while trying to build a better life – not while trying to satisfy some random whim of having an exciting life.
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Just this year, I traveled to the Caribbean, not as a missionary to save lives, not as an indentured servant in a strange land because it was a better alternative to staying where I was, but to get a suntan.
It’s been a long time since people in first world countries have had to eke out a living in a hostile environment. We’re all hopelessly spoiled and lucky enough to go on adventures just. because. we. can.
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If you want adventure, do it before you have a couple of dependent pre-schoolers. Or wait until the kids at least have gotten to the point where they can stand watch on a sailboat. If nothing else, I can’t imagine dealing with the diaper rash in a marine environment. What do you do, slap marine varnish on it?
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What gives you the arrogance to think that you have the right to tell other people how to live THEIR lives?
This wasn’t the Coast Guard, because they were ~900 miles off the Coast…of Mexico, not even the U.S. This was the frickin’ deep-sea Navy.
I bet they didn’t also foresee their steering breaking down, or their regular comm gear doing the same (they used a satellite phone to call for help), or their boat taking on enough water that the Navy had to sink it.
That’s a lot of things going wrong with the boat, in addition to their kid getting seriously ill. I’m thinking that the sailing community might re-think the idea of defending these clowns, because it’s just a bit too much to swallow that they prepared as they should, but got hit by an incredible run of bad luck just a couple weeks out.
I hope they know more about those risks than they do about the risks of driving cars.
Can we stop excluding the middle? There are a lot of levels of risk in between ordinary life and a Pacific crossing in a small boat. Many of them are acceptable to involve small children in. But some risks are substantial enough that persons shouldn’t be involved in them at a point in their lives when they are unable to give informed consent to the risks.
I’m been waiting before wading in with an opinion. My gut says the couple was nuts, but I’m not going to call them “irresponsible” without knowing more information about them.
However, I’m not buying the “we all take risks!” argument as a defense. It seems to me they were just one more “oopsie” away from a real tragedy. The satellite phone could have stopped working. The boat could have capsized. Or they all could have fallen seriously ill at the same time. These are fairly realistic what-ifs and in isolation maybe they wouldn’t be that bad. But all the couple needed was just one of them in addition to their other problems, and they could have had the makings for a much sadder story.
Sure, a family that goes on a day-long hiking trip in the mountains is also at risk for danger. But your typical hiking trail is going to be in a park where hopefully there are other people nearby. If heaven forbid your phone doesn’t work and you need rescue, you can scream loud enough and maybe someone will hear you. Or you can set out on foot and get help. Hell, a concerned ranger may see your car in the parking lot and put two-and-two together. None of these options were available to the family out at sea.
I don’t think the couple needs to be hung out to dry. But I don’t like the idea of folks seeking out adventure and risking someone else’s life in the process. Doesn’t seem like that was the case in this situation, but it could have been.
OK, it was the Navy. The Navy does sea rescues, too, it’s sort of maritime tradition to help anyone you find in trouble.
Frankly, the fact they had a satellite phone makes me think they were prepared for that unlikely possibility.
I have a friend who has been a sailor for over 40 years, and in fact has a ship commercial captain’s license. He was hired to move a sailboat from Kenosha, Wisconsin to Port, Huron, Michigan. Very experienced sailor, decades on the lakes in question, new boat, they looked it over prior to setting out.
Six hours later, during a relatively mild storm, there’s a massive crack and water starts bubbling up from the bilge, flooding the boat. He and the crew had just enough time to get off a mayday and abandon ship, and spent most of a night in Lake Michigan (thank goodness they had survival suits).
Gee, maybe they were nutballs, unprepared, eff-ups… or maybe sometimes crap hits the fan fast and hard. Really, the media isn’t giving us enough information to know if these people were screw up and idiots or really did just have a run of very bad luck.
I started going offshore, out of sight of land, at 11. We carried medical, supplies, radio, etc.
I carry a Spot beacon when I backpack (and I pay for the $250k in search & rescue insurance they push through a partner).
At first glance - I would have done the big run later when the kids might appreciate it more. Then again, I watched fellow sailers keep on putting off the big run until they were ready - only to never make it. If this was the best time for run - go for it.
No comments on if the boat was really prepped and ready. I have been on some great vessels that were fully ready, and read of the same model sinking in a storm. The ocean is mean bitch when she is angry.
The story about them in the morning paper (yes, I read a morning paper; I’m old) said that on Day 8 of their trip they blogged “I think this may be the stupidest thing we have ever done. ‘Stupid’ is the number one word that resonates throughout my day as we tick the slow minutes away to the kids’ bed times each night.” Hmm.
That was before the kid got sick.
I would not have done it under any circumstances with little kids, no matter how experienced a sailor I was or how well I had planned. Too many things can go wrong and the consequences of having them go wrong a thousand miles from anywhere are too great.
He used to routinely take his kids along on his own sailboat from the time they were toddlers. Of course, they wore lifejackets the whole time and were supervised. I met his son when the kid was three, on the sailboat. Yes, he very much used caution when doing so, constantly checking weather, taking backup communications, etc. Didn’t sail to New Zealand with kids that young, either, but I’m not sure he’d think it a bizarre notion. Next time I see him I’m going to ask his opinion about this whole affair as I think he is capable of an informed opinion where I am not.
Yes, it’s a significant factor but as I said, the media isn’t giving me enough information that I feel I can have a valid opinion on this.
That boat could have foundered just out of sight of land out on a Sunday day trip. They would have the same time wise for the boat sinking. On a Sunday sail, do you take a sat phone? Are they now idiots for going sailing with their children? Why does where they are have anything to do with it.
It might be hard to believe it, but the number of cases where your kids genuinely NEED medical care is actually pretty damn rare - even for a 1 year old.
Sure, they get the sniffles and we toddle off to make sure it’s not encephalitis or something, but really - a bit of fever medicine, something for nappy rash and most of the time you’re good for most situations.
Um…hell yes you should take a sat phone! I don’t own a cell phone, but whenever I go on my long-ass hikes, I break down and buy a prepaid one, just in case I twist my ankle and tumble off a trail. Because it’s the responsible thing to do. And if something were to happen to me, I wouldn’t want my love ones having to hear, “WHY DIDN’T SHE CALL SOMEONE!!!” over and over and OVER again. It would be mighty embarrassing for them.
If you take on risks for yourself, you have to be responsible. If you bring toddlers into this risk-taking, you have to be EXTRA responsible. I don’t know why this should be at all controversial.
