# Saint who was said to be a living exemplar of The Rule **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 2, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466 "2016-10-02T14:33:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/1 "2016-10-02T14:33:33Z")
My Catholic google-fu is failing me. I’m trying to remember which saint was considered to be such a living exemplar of The Rule of his/her order that _it was said_ if the Rule were lost, it could be reconstructed by observing him/her. Was it St. Benedict? Or maybe St. Therese de Lisieux? I’m hoping some ole-timey Catholic will remember this off the top of their head. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/2 "2016-10-02T14:57:37Z")
To someone outside the church who’s spent time around Catholics anyway, it seems to refer to St. Francis. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/3 "2016-10-02T15:49:08Z")
OK, what is “The Rule”? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/4 "2016-10-02T15:58:18Z")
[Rule of St. Benedict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict) > [@](#): > > The Rule of Saint Benedict (Latin: Regula Benedicti) is a book of precepts written by Benedict of Nursia (c. 480 – 550 AD) for monks living communally under the authority of an abbot. > > The spirit of St. Benedict’s Rule is summed up in the motto of the Benedictine Confederation: \*pax \*(“peace”) and the traditional _ora et labora_ (“pray and work”). > > Compared to other precepts, the Rule provides a moderate path between individual zeal and formulaic institutionalism; because of this middle ground it has been widely popular. Benedict’s concerns were the needs of monks in a community environment: namely, to establish due order, to foster an understanding of the relational nature of human beings, and to provide a spiritual father to support and strengthen the individual’s ascetic effort and the spiritual growth… Read more at the Wiki link above. It’s pretty interesting. They’re REALLY detailed. The Rule of St. Benedict became the foundation for many religious orders, i.e., people who live in community and pretty much have to get along, since they’re bound together for life. > [@](#): > > Charlemagne had Benedict’s rule copied and distributed to encourage monks throughout western Europe to follow it as a standard. Beyond its religious influences, the Rule of St Benedict was one of the most important written works to shape medieval Europe, embodying the ideas of a written constitution and the rule of law. It also incorporated a degree of democracy in a non-democratic society, and dignified manual labor. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/5 "2016-10-02T15:59:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK, what is “The Rule”? The Rule of the monastery (or abbey) in question. Each order of monks or nuns has a “Rule” (for example - the Rule of St. Benedict [Rule of Saint Benedict - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_Saint_Benedict)) which describes how the order works (what happens at what times of day and what times of year, what behavior is required, and what behavior is forbidden, etc.). To answer the OP’s question, I’ve seen fictional nuns describes as being the Rule personified - for example in Rumer Godden’s “In this House of Brede” but I’m not aware of a real world example. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/6 "2016-10-02T16:12:07Z")
I’m ghostwriting some remarks for someone to give at an upcoming event. I want to cite this saint, if I can come up with who it is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/7 "2016-10-02T20:20:43Z")
Every order, and every monastery in every order, has a Rule, but absent a qualifier, “The Rule” is most likely to mean the Rule of St. Benedict. And the saint in question would therefore almost certainly be a Benedictine monk. Unfortunately that doesn’t narrow it down very much. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/8 "2016-10-02T20:49:22Z")
I seem to recall that the first Rule was written by Pachomus in the 4th century when monasticism first sprouted in Egypt and Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/9 "2016-10-03T12:11:11Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > To answer the OP’s question, I’ve seen fictional nuns describes as being the Rule personified - for example in Rumer Godden’s “In this House of Brede” but I’m not aware of a real world example. Nitpick: This isn’t from **In This House of Brede** , it’s from Kathryn Hulme’s **The Nun’s Story.** ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/10 "2016-10-03T14:45:00Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > Nitpick: This isn’t from **In This House of Brede** , it’s from Kathryn Hulme’s **The Nun’s Story.** I do recall that quote from The Nun’s Story. That’s one of those movies that whenever it randomly shows up on TV I have to watch it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/11 "2016-10-03T15:34:55Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > To someone outside the church who’s spent time around Catholics anyway, it seems to refer to St. Francis. Is there a Rule for Franciscans? I thought he rejected Benedictine monasterial life, for living in the world? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/12 "2016-10-03T15:38:32Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Is there a Rule for Franciscans? I thought he rejected Benedictine monasterial life, for living in the world? Yes there is; in fact, every Order must have a Rule. People who want to found an Order must present the Rule they want to follow and defend it. If you don’t have a Rule you’re not an Order, you’re just a bunch of wahoos singing kumbayah. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/13 "2016-10-03T20:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > If you don’t have a Rule you’re not an Order, you’re just a bunch of wahoos singing kumbayah. You mean like the Third Order Franciscans? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/14 "2016-10-04T07:49:16Z")
Which happen to have a Rule… as do the Tertiaries of any other Order. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/15 "2016-10-04T13:35:09Z")
Huh, I didn’t even know that any other orders _had_ tertiaries. ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e47774/32.png) [@quiltguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/16 "2016-10-04T19:33:46Z")
In my Catholic high school(run by the Norbertines, Order of the Praemonstratensians[care to guess what THEIR nickname was?])\*, we had a few teachers who were “Black Franciscans,” friars(they wore black cassocks, hence their more common name) who had the letters T.O.R. appended to their names. That stood for Third Order Regulars, but we sacrilegiously changed it to **Tired Of Religion.** They seemed pretty “worldly” to us, so the epithet fit. There’s been some mention of St. Francis of Assisi, but none of his sister, who founded the Poor Clares, historically an exemplary organization. Might Clare fill the bill? - For those of you who didn’t care to play along, the Order of Monstrous Pretensions was right on the money. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/17 "2016-10-04T21:10:19Z")
I’d vote for St Francis. Dude was so humble, he refused to become a priest nor to have any official rank _within his own bloody order_. Getting canonized after that must have really ticked him off. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/18 "2016-10-05T07:26:49Z")
> [@quiltguy](#): > > There’s been some mention of St. Francis of Assisi, but none of his sister, who founded the Poor Clares, historically an exemplary organization. Might Clare fill the bill? She wasn’t his sister unless you were speaking in spiritual terms. Francis of Assisi was born Giovanni di Pietro di Bernardone; Francesco “the French one” as nickname because he’d been born while his dad was in France on business. Clare of Assisi was born Ciara (=Clare) Sciffi. In both cases, the “of Assisi” refers to where they were from. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saint-who-was-said-to-be-a-living-exemplar-of-the-rule/767466/19 "2016-10-06T22:45:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Huh, I didn’t even know that any other orders _had_ tertiaries. There’s the Third Order of Saint Dominic also. > **[Third Order of Saint Dominic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Order_of_Saint_Dominic)** > > The Third Order of Saint Dominic (Latin: Tertius Ordo Praedicatorum; abbreviated TOP), also referred to as the Lay Fraternities of Saint Dominic or Lay Dominicans since 1972, is a Catholic third order which is part of the Dominican Order. > As members of the Order of Preachers, Lay Dominicans are men and women, single or married, living a Christian life with a Dominican spirituality in the secular world. They find inspiration in the spiritual path taken by many saints, blesseds, and other holy men... St. Therese you can rule out – not that she didn’t follow the rule of her order, but because she is more famously known for her “little way”.