# Salt for Gentiles **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 7, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669 "2009-03-07T19:49:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/61 "2009-03-09T01:42:01Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Not a ting. OTTOMH Good N Plenty uses an insect glaze and is marked kosher. However, the instant you use the trademarked certification symbol of a kashrut organization, you will be sued for trademark infringement. That’s why GNP’s are marked “kosher” but lack any certification mark. GNP is KO certified by [Kosher Service](http://www.ko-kosher-service.org/), if I’m not mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/62 "2009-03-09T01:49:25Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > GNP is KO certified by [Kosher Service](http://www.ko-kosher-service.org/), if I’m not mistaken. I’m honestly having a hard time figuring out whether that page design is intended ironically or not. Nice MIDI by the way. Is that “Funkytown?” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/63 "2009-03-09T01:53:58Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > He goes on to say he wants to bring out Christian bagels. W.T.F.? Surely we have reached the End Times. :eek: Why not just market hot cross buns? “Christ, these are good!” ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/64 "2009-03-09T01:54:14Z")
[http://www.instructables.com/id/EIF5VAH1AUEQZJJNLN/](http://www.instructables.com/id/EIF5VAH1AUEQZJJNLN/) GNP’s contain carmine- made from crushed cochineal insect. Yet they bear the Ko certification. Somebody needs to explain the situation. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/65 "2009-03-09T02:10:04Z")
I also don’t see the Ko certification on this list of reliable marks [http://www.instructables.com/id/EIF5VAH1AUEQZJJNLN/](http://www.instructables.com/id/EIF5VAH1AUEQZJJNLN/) If it’s been going for some time it’s likely not just a certification error on the GNP. “resinous glaze” may be zein, a corn protein. So I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt there. But carmine, AFAIK, refers only to a dye made from crushed bug shells. It is entirely unkosher. I can only conclude that Novaseller’s have a unique view of kashrut, or a whores with rabbinical degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/66 "2009-03-09T02:12:09Z")
[This website has an answer](http://www.ottmall.com/mj_ht_arch/v32/mj_v32i11.html): > [@](#): > > On the face of it, carmine shouldn’t be kosher since it comes from an > insect. The point is, though, that R’ Ovadia Yosef wrote a halachic > responsum (which appears in his responsa Yabia Omer 8:11 - hence the > reference you noted) declaring it kosher. If I recall correctly, his > reasoning is that the carmine undergoes various chemical processes that > make it (temporarily) inedible; there are similar arguments in the > writings of earlier authorities about cochineal (another red dye) and > shellac, both of which are derived from insect secretions. Take that for what you will: I have no idea whether this answer is convincing to folks who keep kosher. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/67 "2009-03-09T02:20:55Z")
I’m familiar with the ‘it ceases to be food argument’ the same reasoning is used by some authorities when it comes to gelatin. In short, if a dog would not eat it then under Jewish law it ceases to be food and kashrut no longer applies. I have never heard the argument applied to carmine before and am suspicious. I am also suspicious that the quote addresses carmine and cochineal as two different things when I have only read that they are two names for the same substance. hmm. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/68 "2009-03-09T03:18:19Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I already found a salt company that got it’s kosher cert via rabbi. Only one? That hardly means they all need it. > [@](#): > > The ignorance fought was the idea it involves blessing, yes? Point taken. Now let’s find out if Kosher salt must \*always \*be prepared under rabbinical supervision. I say no. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/69 "2009-03-09T03:21:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Now let’s find out if Kosher salt must \*always \*be prepared under rabbinical supervision. I say no. **Scuba Ben** already state that the supervisor does not need to be a rabbi. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/70 "2009-03-09T04:12:19Z")
It’s such an ignorant idea and ridiculous, all salt is kosher. This inventor guy is a dumbass, one thing doesn’t follow another. Kosher(ing) Salt describes its use. It’s used to draw blood from meat to make meat Kosher. No blessing by the Rabbi ever. What’s the use for this Christian Salt? … Hmmm. Well, I can see it being a useful addition to a vampire and zombie hunters kit. One can fill the zombie or vampires mouth with the blessed salt and sew it shut. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/71 "2009-03-09T04:29:28Z")
Is there some sort of standard rabbinical dog used for applying that reasoning? Because I’ve known some dogs for whom nothing would ever qualify as “not food”. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/72 "2009-03-09T04:37:52Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > … Hmmm. Well, I can see it being a useful addition to a vampire and zombie hunters kit. One can fill the zombie or vampires mouth with the blessed salt and sew it shut. You know, I don’t consider myself much of a Christian, but as a former Christian, the vampire zombie Christian bashing is kinda insulting. Where in the bible does it speak of vampires and zombies? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/73 "2009-03-09T04:45:51Z")
The ancient Hebrews defined a “dog” as any creature without wings and fewer than six legs that is not a fish, and which chews the cud, but does not draw blood from insects with cloven hooves on the Sabbath. Later, it was acknowledged that an insect with cloven hooves that was also either a zombie or vampire, but did not chew the blood, could also be certified as a “dog,” so long as it had never tasted the fruit of its own cud. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/74 "2009-03-09T06:00:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is there some sort of standard rabbinical dog used for applying that reasoning? Because I’ve known some dogs for whom nothing would ever qualify as “not food”. I’m sure scholars have argued over just what constitutes a dog and what constitutes not eating. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/75 "2009-03-09T14:16:42Z")
Does anybody actually use kosher salt to kosher meat? If I buy meat at a kosher butcher hasn’t that already been done for me? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/76 "2009-03-09T14:31:36Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Does anybody actually use kosher salt to kosher meat? Presumably, the kosher butcher. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/77 "2009-03-09T14:33:34Z")
#77 posts before a mention of that SDMB meme, bacon salt? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/78 "2009-03-09T14:50:59Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Does anybody actually use kosher salt to kosher meat? If I buy meat at a kosher butcher hasn’t that already been done for me? Yes, people use kosher salt to kasher meat. OTTOMH Empire and Shofar brand meats and poultry carry stickers certifying ‘This meat is kosher so far. It will not be fully kosher until salted and cooked’. I don’t know where the nearest shochet (kosher butcher) is in Philly. I can go to Acme, Superfresh etc and buy kosher brands of meat and kosher salt. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/79 "2009-03-09T14:55:24Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > You know, I don’t consider myself much of a Christian, but as a former Christian, the vampire zombie Christian bashing is kinda insulting. Where in the bible does it speak of vampires and zombies? 😕 It’s a staple of vampire fiction that holy (i.e., blessed) water is dangerous to them. It would reasonably follow that blessed salt would be similar. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669/80 "2009-03-09T15:12:30Z")
And here’s what will really blow your mind… The Christian Salt is Kosher! And very likely, his other planned “Christian” products (Rye Bread, Pickles, and Bagels) will by their very nature also be Kosher. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/salt-for-gentiles/488669.md?page=5)