# Sam Bankman convicted 2023-11-02 (was living with parents, then jail). Is BTC and cryptocurrency busted too? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019 "2022-12-23T20:10:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/121 "2023-10-17T13:54:47Z")
Otherwise my celly might be calling out ‘Pardon me, is this a dead white guy storage unit?’ ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/122 "2023-10-17T14:21:09Z")
Interesting read. I’m pretty sure that that won’t apply to the minimum security place where he’ll be spending his youth. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/123 "2023-10-17T14:35:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It is possible to get lots of cheap starchy badly made food though. As long as that’s the diet this snowflake craves, he’s gonna be happy. Not sure if you mean that as a joke or if you’ve never met a vegan. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/124 "2023-10-17T14:48:34Z")
He’s talking about being “happy” in the context of being in jail or prison. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/125 "2023-10-17T14:54:02Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > It is possible to get lots of cheap starchy badly made food though. As long as that’s the diet this snowflake craves, he’s gonna be happy. > > Not sure if you mean that as a joke or if you’ve never met a vegan. Sorry to be unclear. It’s as @Mighty_Mouse said. I left out the key words “in a prison”. Since that was where the convo was talking about Bankman ending up at the time I posted. And my point was not that prison food is anywhere near actually factually vegan. Just that Bankman was going to get crap food and either like it or lump it. But it would be food that would be low in protein and high in starch; cheap starch. So more plant-based than not. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/126 "2023-10-17T15:07:38Z")
He can get peanut butter in the commissary. This kid grew up incredibly wealthy and has had extreme privilege his whole life. He went to one of the most expensive prep schools in the country and has never done a single bit of work that was useful to society. Prior to starting his company he worked for a place that made money by skimming profits from others by using algorithms to find flaws in financial transactions. I have no sympathy if his potatoes have a little bit of butter. His parents need to lose their careers and have their reputations completely destroyed as well. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/127 "2023-10-17T15:21:59Z")
Perhaps far more psychopaths would suffer an accident in childhood if their parents were held fully responsible for the crimes of their offspring. Not a serious proposal, but so much good would come into the world if that few percent of humans could be disappeared with no more like them ever born again. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/128 "2023-10-17T15:46:09Z")
In this case though the parents were complicit in the actual crimes. One is an expert on tax law, the other on legal ethics. They were handsomely paid advisors to the scam. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/129 "2023-10-17T15:52:02Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > They were handsomely paid advisors to the scam. I did not know that. Thank you. That certainly upgrades my idea from “joke” to “actionable plan”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/130 "2023-10-17T15:57:56Z")
Oh, dump on Bankman-Freid, for sure. He deserves it. But I’d prefer if this thread didn’t also turn into a place to dump on vegans. Even vegetarians complain that when meat eaters serve them a “vegetarian option” it’s often a dish with all the good stuff removed (that is, the parts that are rich in protein and flavor), and not, you know, a dish that would actually be served by a vegetarian. It seems highly unlikely that Bankman-Freid will be able to maintain a vegan diet in prison. I know prisons give some religious accommodations and medical accommodations in food, but i doubt “vegan” counts as either. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/131 "2023-10-17T16:35:13Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I know prisons give some religious accommodations and medical accommodations in food, but i doubt “vegan” counts as either. Most of the vegans I know are vegans for religious reasons. But of course I’m South Asian. Among South Indians it’s common for vegetarian to mean vegan. With egg & dairy eaters called eggetarians. A rather derisive term, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/132 "2023-10-17T16:44:28Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Among South Indians it’s common for vegetarian to mean vegan. I guess South Indian cuisine would use coconut milk rather than yoghurt. But also no butter? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/133 "2023-10-17T16:49:52Z")
it took me a bit to realise that J next to items on menus in little India meant Jain. The dietary restrictions of Jainism make kashrut look easy. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/134 "2023-10-17T16:50:54Z")
Back to the actual fraud trial, some of the details coming out in the prosecution are amazing. From Bloomberg’s Matt Levine’s newsletter: > In June 2022, as crypto prices spiraled and Alameda’s lenders were calling in their loans, [Caroline] Ellison said she prepared seven “alternative balance sheets” that would conceal Alameda’s large borrowing from FTX customers… > “He suggested I should prepare some alternative ways of presenting the information and send it to him,” she said. “I understood him to be directing me to come up with ways to conceal things in our balance sheet we both agreed would look bad.” Bankman-Fried told her to send Genesis her Alternative 7 — which didn’t disclose money taken from FTX customers. It cut Alameda’s liabilities from $15 billion to around $10 billion. She testified that the document was “dishonest.” > … > If you prepare a balance sheet for a lender and your boss says “why don’t we present this information in a different way,” you probably need a lawyer. If you prepare SEVEN BALANCE SHEETS and your boss is like “let’s go with Alternative 7” then one of you is going to prison absolutely forever. Caroline Ellison smartly decided it wasn’t going to be her. More details here > **[The FTX trial, day six: A constant state of dread](https://newsletter.mollywhite.net/p/the-ftx-trial-day-six)** > > "Alternate" balance sheets, bribes, Saudi financing, and a painfully intertwined personal and professional life were among the topics described by Sam Bankman-Fried's former employee and girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/135 "2023-10-17T19:28:05Z")
I hear Trump Org may be hiring. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/136 "2023-10-17T19:49:51Z")
They certainly have a use for accountants of such noteworthy creativity. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/137 "2023-10-17T20:29:22Z")
It’s not fraud, it’s MAGAAP. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/138 "2023-10-20T03:51:56Z")
From the above article: > Then, they used “various trading strategies” to try to move the funds to accounts that were not frozen. **One such strategy involved creating several accounts with credentials belonging to Thai prostitutes** , then performing imbalanced trades such that the frozen accounts lost money and the new accounts made money. **This apparently didn’t work either.** I had no idea the world of high finance involved so many options. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/139 "2023-10-20T04:22:44Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Among South Indians it’s common for vegetarian to mean vegan. > [@Riemann](#): > > But also no butter? My understanding is the important qualification here is South Indian. Apparently the north has a far more ghee-heavy cuisine and is much more likely to be vegetarian, but NOT vegan. Whereas the south leans a bit more genuinely vegan. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2023, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019/140 "2023-10-20T12:27:24Z")
It’s interesting how cultural factors play a part. For instance, in Israel, many if not most people who call themselves vegetarian also eat fish - because in Judaism, fish isn’t considered meat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-bankman-convicted-2023-11-02-was-living-with-parents-then-jail-is-btc-and-cryptocurrency-busted-too/977019.md?page=8)