# Sam Harris is a pseudoscientist, and anyone who follows him is deceived! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555 "2016-07-22T03:30:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/1 "2016-07-22T03:30:01Z")
This was going to be a Pit thread calling **SlackerInc** a hateful piece of filth, but meh. Just being clever enough to realize that the Christian conception of God is imaginary does not make you the smartest person in the room. It makes you a moderately clever middle-schooler. Of course it’s imaginary! It’s not empirically supported & exists in churchgoers’ imaginations! And you know, I’m not even talking about a Doper there. I’m talking about that genetic-determinist whackjob Sam Harris. By this point, the psychological sciences should be hanging up posters denouncing that 1990’s “Genes ‘Я’ Destiny” twaddle. Anyone taking Sam Harris’s advice at this point is following pseudoscience, as surely as if they were following LRH or preaching the subluxation theory of disease. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/2 "2016-07-22T03:39:47Z")
Wasn’t he the grocer on Green Acres? Or was he the butcher on The Brady Bunch? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/3 "2016-07-22T04:03:30Z")
Harris makes his case far more persuasively and articulately than the OP makes an anti-Harris case. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/4 "2016-07-22T04:18:21Z")
Let me get this straight, the OP is pitting one of the pillars of modern day atheism because “duh, it’s atheism, it ain’t that hard.” Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/5 "2016-07-22T04:21:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Wasn’t he the grocer on Green Acres? Or was he the butcher on The Brady Bunch? I first confused Sam Harris with Sam Smith the 2015 Grammy winner for _Stay With Me_. And I was like, why does **foolsguinea** hate that song? ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/6 "2016-07-22T04:40:17Z")
What’s a “genetic determinist”? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/7 "2016-07-22T04:51:51Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Harris makes his case far more persuasively and articulately than the OP makes an anti-Harris case. The OP is pretty incoherent, isn’t it? I really can’t make head or tail of what exactly is being complained about. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/8 "2016-07-22T05:05:36Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The OP is pretty incoherent, isn’t it? I really can’t make head or tail of what exactly is being complained about. I can vaguely understand why the concept of biological determinism upsets some people, in the sense of there being no independent “mind” or “human spirit” or whatever; just an extraordinarily complex physical brain. I can vaguely gather the OP is one of those upset people. I think. Possibly my own neural programming is insufficient. The original post isn’t a Turing test - it’s more of a Durr-ing test. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/9 "2016-07-22T05:31:37Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The OP is pretty incoherent, isn’t it? I really can’t make head or tail of what exactly is being complained about. I’m guessing it’s this, > [@How many more attacks before the West has to consider the previously unthinkable?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-more-attacks-before-the-west-has-to-consider-the-previously-unthinkable/759950/333): > > {…} so much fury is directed against my hero Sam Harris {…} The _OP_ still makes no fucking sense but… CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/10 "2016-07-22T05:37:11Z")
Never heard of him/her. I’ll be under my rock if you need me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/11 "2016-07-22T05:45:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > …Or was he the butcher on The Brady Bunch? Close. The guy who kidnapped and murdered Marcia. The thanks of a grateful nation… ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/12 "2016-07-22T06:14:46Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > I first confused Sam Harris with Sam Smith the 2015 Grammy winner for _Stay With Me_. And I was like, why does **foolsguinea** hate that song? I love that song, but pitting Jeff Lynne and Tom Petty would be a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/13 "2016-07-22T06:26:25Z")
OK, there are a few things going on with Sam Harris. One, he’s a philosophical determinist. OK, who cares? Really! That’s just fatalism in scientism’s clothes. If the universe is hard-deterministic, that means you never actually make any choices anyway; so why are you yapping about it, you dumb zombie? The reason, of course, is that fatalism is _an excuse._ Michael Moorcock got it right in _The Sailor on the Seas of Fate._ Even if we have no choice, it’s better to behave as if we do. Two, Harris is still talking about genes for personality traits. This is nonsense. Even in a determinist universe, human personality is not pre-coded in our genes. That bit of pseudoscience was everywhere in the 1990’s, but it’s nonsense, on the level of phrenology, blood type personalities, and astrololgy. \*Culture and religion don’t map to genetics. Persons have life experiences. Oh, and people are conscious beings. Not even Sam Harris is really a philosophical zombie.\* But of course it’s an excuse (again) for things like class rigidity or racial essentialism, and (although he’ll deny it) for nudging people toward genocidal political policies. Sam Harris: The missing link between Richard Dawkins, Charles Murray, and Adolf Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/14 "2016-07-22T06:37:28Z")
Oh I get it, the OP is a Ben Afflec fan and is trying to make him look better after his encounter with Sam Harris on the Tonight Show. Ok your second post came in as I was writing mine, Dude you seriously do not know what the hell you are talking about. Every word you just posted about Harris demonstrates this. You should try and watch or read some of his work instead of reposting crap from Checnk ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/15 "2016-07-22T06:39:49Z")
Whoever Sam Harris is, I’m guessing he’s more coherant than the OP. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/16 "2016-07-22T07:14:52Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > OK, there are a few things going on with Sam Harris. > Two, Harris is still talking about genes for personality traits. This is nonsense. Even in a determinist universe, **human personality is not pre-coded in our genes**. That bit of pseudoscience was everywhere in the 1990’s, but it’s nonsense, on the level of phrenology, blood type personalities, and astrololgy. \*Culture and religion don’t map to genetics. Persons have life experiences. Ignoring the fact that I don’t fully agree with Sam Harris and also ignoring the fact that you invoked godwin’s law you are wrong about human personality traits and genetics. [ > [@](#): > > On multiple measures of personality and temperament, occupational and leisure-time interests, and social attitudes, monozygotic twins reared apart are about as similar as are monozygotic twins reared together. These findings extend and support those from numerous other twin, family, and adoption studies. ]([Sources of human psychological differences: the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2218526)) [ > [@](#): > > The average effect size was .40, indicating that 40% of individual differences in personality were due to genetic, while 60% are due to environmental influences ]([APA PsycNet](http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2015-20360-001)) Maybe you should check your own beliefs before claiming someone is a pseudoscientist. Or you can just get angry and hand wave it away…it was always going to happen anyway :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/17 "2016-07-22T08:14:01Z")
Thinking the term ‘scientism’ is valid makes _you_ a pseudophilosopher, **foolsguinea**. First, trivially, science is a method, not a philosophy. There doesn’t need to be any specific underlying philosophy, just the process of seeking to form and disprove hypothesis and build theories which generate hypotheses in an evidence-driven fashion. That does _not_ presuppose any single philosophy, it merely demands what’s called “methodological naturalism”, which just means “Check your supernatural beliefs at the door”; in more precise language, it forbids proposing a supernatural explanation for any phenomenon, because the supernatural is definitionally beyond what we can probe into. If the reason for something is supernatural, all inquiry must stop. It’s the equivalent of kicking the ball off the playing field and into a sewage treatment pond. (This was actually a problem at my elementary school…) Second, it’s a strawman. You can ascribe any kind of bizarre (and usually quite naïve) reductionist beliefs to the epithet ‘scientism’ and discredit them, making your audience think you’ve scored points off some scientific hegemony. It goes back to the whole “measuring the marigolds” nonsense which presumes that understanding precludes emotion, and so you can’t be in awe of something if you know how it works. That may be true of crude tricks but it is most emphatically _not_ true of the natural world. It is a vanity, and a folly, of Romanticism for it to presume it is necessarily in conflict with Enlightenment. Such a fight is very much one-sided, especially given how much passion is needed to pursue a research position given the abysmally low pay most of them offer. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/18 "2016-07-22T09:14:03Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Thinking the term ‘scientism’ is valid makes _you_ a pseudophilosopher, **foolsguinea**. It’s a perfectly cromulent word: “thought or expression regarded as characteristic of scientists. excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/19 "2016-07-22T09:30:02Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > It’s a perfectly cromulent word: > > “thought or expression regarded as characteristic of scientists. > excessive belief in the power of scientific knowledge and techniques” I note how the first is rather trivial, and doesn’t describe a philosophy, and the second is an insult, and _also_ doesn’t describe a philosophy. If **foolsguinea** was merely being insulting or trivial, I suppose it would fit in with the rest of their behavior in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555/20 "2016-07-22T11:17:10Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Wasn’t he the grocer on Green Acres? Or was he the butcher on The Brady Bunch? I was thinking “What did George Cohan’s business partner in _Yankee Doodle Dandy_ ever do to the OP?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-harris-is-a-pseudoscientist-and-anyone-who-follows-him-is-deceived/760555.md?page=2)