# Sam Stone believes Trump's tweets **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633 "2020-10-10T13:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/223 "2020-10-17T16:24:49Z")
Or Bloody Mary. 'Tis the season, you know. šŸ‘» ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/224 "2020-10-17T16:28:12Z")
Nuke it from orbit, itā€™s the only way to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/225 "2020-10-17T19:57:33Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You may not care about, and the insurance companies sure as hell arenā€™t accounting for the people 1000s of miles away who die because of increased PM inhalation from the coal power that is used to generate electricity for amorphous silicon PECVD I seem to recall _specifically saying_ that externalities should be counted. Why yes, in fact I did. By definition, externalities are those costs which are _not_ counted in the price of something. However, externalities should generally be accounted to the industry that produces them. That will create the maximum possible driving force to reform those industries. Charge the energy producers the costs for the pollution they emit. Theyā€™ll have to either charge their consumers more or switch to less costly technology. Trying to count these deaths against indifferent consumers is silly, and likely to be counterproductive. The solar panel manufacturer is perfectly happy to use power from, say, solar panels. But because they buy power on the open market like everyone else, they are partly running on coal and other dirty energy. Charge those costs to the dirty energy producers and they will have to switch to something cleaner. Everything downstream will automatically benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/226 "2020-10-17T20:02:33Z")
Please take this hijack elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/227 "2020-10-17T20:41:37Z")
Itā€™s a Pit thread, and one thatā€™s gotten otherwise boring due to @Sam_Stoneā€™s cowardice. And itā€™s not like weā€™re going to get an answer to ā€œwhat happened to you, man?ā€ anyway other than what we already know, which is that heā€™s been poisoned by right-wing propaganda to the point where he can no longer detect even obvious lies by Trump. Iā€™ve seen the same thing in my own parents and I donā€™t think thereā€™s any going back. Itā€™s sad and hard to understand but I suspect weā€™ve all seen the same pattern in our personal lives. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/228 "2020-10-17T21:07:05Z")
Iā€™ve got a different theory in case of Sam\_Stone. I doubt very much he is fooled in the slightest by Trump&Co. But the conservative side has been gutted for years by unscrupulous right wing lunacy, culminating (I hope) with Trump. The left meanwhile, has become more progressive to the point where most traditional conservatives canā€™t find it tolerable. Biden is an exception as a centrist but he does not represent the progressive Democrats and conservatives know it. Extreme right wing politics of the past 20 years have ruined any chance for bi-partisanship. Compromise to GOP politicians now just looks like capitulation and gets them the RINO label by their supporters and a primary challenge from the lunatic fringe right. So they have no safe high ground to which to run. No DMZ. Doubling down on the anti-left agenda is the only identity they can safely put forward, no matter how self-destructive it is in the long run. That is why Sam\_Stone appears to support absurd arguments that donā€™t even resemble reality. He canā€™t bring himself to abandon the right, regardless of how little it resembles legitimate conservative values. In other words, heā€™s taken the position of _ā€˜better wrong than blue, fuck you very muchā€™_. This is the hill he and others like him have decided to die on. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/229 "2020-10-17T21:09:56Z")
Except **Sam** is Canadian and blue is the colour of the Conservative Party of Canada. šŸ˜€ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/230 "2020-10-17T21:24:55Z")
Which probably further contributes to his identity crisis when he wades into American politics. Have you ever had the feeling that you wanted to blue but then you had the feeling that you wanted to redā€¦? Or Iā€™ve over-complicated it and heā€™s just a standard issue right wing asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/231 "2020-10-17T23:16:10Z")
Jesus Christ, dude. You are coming across as unhinged. What fucking difference does it make to you if Sam returns to this thread or not? I wouldnā€™t if I were him. Why do you care? How will his returning to this thread improve your life? He canā€™t even vote in the upcoming election. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/232 "2020-10-17T23:23:44Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I seem to recall _specifically saying_ that externalities should be counted. Why yes, in fact I did. You specifically havenā€™t used that word before in this thread. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > By definition, externalities are those costs which are _not_ counted in the price of something. Iā€™m not talking about prices. Iā€™m talking about deaths. You wanting to talk about prices doesnā€™t change this. And even if we were talking about prices, you previously wrote that ā€œWhen you order a load of concrete, whatever (fractional) deaths that went into making it already show up in the costsā€, which is flat-out false. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > However, externalities should generally be accounted to the industry that produces them. That will create the maximum possible driving force to reform those industries. Charge the energy producers the costs for the pollution they emit. Theyā€™ll have to either charge their consumers more or switch to less costly technology. > > Trying to count these deaths against indifferent consumers is silly, and likely to be counterproductive. The solar panel manufacturer is perfectly happy to use power from, say, solar panels. But because they buy power on the open market like everyone else, they are partly running on coal and other dirty energy. Charge those costs to the dirty energy producers and they will have to switch to something cleaner. Everything downstream will automatically benefit. Nobody is ā€œchargingā€ anybody anything. All else being equal, a generating process that requires more electricity, steel, cement, etc. than another will result in more deaths per unit power generated. Similarly, replacing a steel part in a car with one made from titanium will result in overall higher energy used per mile driven, despite the lightweighting resulting in the real-time gas mileage reading higher, primarily due to the energy required to shove electrons into titanium that really donā€™t want to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/233 "2020-10-17T23:47:30Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Jesus Christ, dude. You are coming across as unhinged. What fucking difference does it make to you if Sam returns to this thread or not? I wouldnā€™t if I were him. Why do you care? How will his returning to this thread improve your life? He canā€™t even vote in the upcoming election Thank you for that lesson in how not to overreact. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/234 "2020-10-18T01:00:16Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Iā€™ve only skimmed the thread, but my takeaway is that Sam Stone is a 1970ā€™s era nuclear reactor. Is that right? So, @sam_stone is a 1970s-Style Death Trap? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/235 "2020-10-18T03:46:42Z")
Indeed he is: > [@](#): > > ā€¦ But the morphine eased the pain > And the grass grew round his brain ā€¦ > > Sam Stone was alone > When he popped his last balloon > Climbing walls while sitting in a chair ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/236 "2020-10-18T03:51:48Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Itā€™s still not rational. Iā€™m not saying itā€™s correct. Iā€™m saying itā€™s a rational concern that can be addressed, like in the way you just chose to do so. You addressed it by appealing to a common reality and statistics and such. Thus we can come to some solution. Iā€™m contrasting that with the more conspiracy-theory and alternative facts stuff that makes it so hard to have a rational discussion with modern conservatives. Also, Iā€™m not sure, but I think usernames may be case sensitive. Could someone specifically use @bigt without the capital letters in a post (that isnā€™t a reply to me) so I can see if I get pinged? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/237 "2020-10-18T04:00:19Z")
@bigt ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/238 "2020-10-18T04:15:14Z")
Sure, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/239 "2020-10-18T05:55:06Z")
Thanks. It still pinged me. So I guess capitalization doesnā€™t matter. Also: @Larry_Borgia: You donā€™t get multiple notifications for multiple uses of the name per thread. @Czarcasm was just making a (rather common) joke. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/240 "2020-10-18T14:09:34Z")
Getting back to the original issue that started all this (other than the nuclear stuff), some media outlets, like **Sam** , have taken the Presidentā€™s tweets as being a real directive, and have applied to Federal Court to have all the documents released. Apparently they had previously lodged an FOI request, which was turned down by the government on national security grounds. So theyā€™ve asked the judge to order the disclosure, since the docs have been declassified by the Prez, so there are no longer any national security grounds that justify non-disclosure. The federal DOJ lawyer is opposing the request, saying that theyā€™d checked with the White House counsel, who said that the Presidentā€™s tweets werenā€™t meant to change the situation. The judge ainā€™t buying it: > [@](#): > > But at a hearing Friday, U.S. District Court Judge Reggie Walton said the secondhand word of an unnamed official in the White House counselā€™s office wasnā€™t good enough to countermand what appeared to be a series of clear statements from Trump that he wanted all the information out. > ā€¦ > ā€œI think the American public has a right to rely upon what the president says about what his intent is,ā€ said Walton, an appointee of President George W. Bush. ā€œIt seems to me that when a president makes an unambiguous statement of what his intent is, I canā€™t rely upon White House counsel saying, ā€˜Well, that was not his intent.ā€™ Maybe White House counsel talked to the president. Maybe they didnā€™t, but I canā€™t tell.ā€ In response, the DOJ lawyer again emphasised that White House counsel said heā€™d checked with the Prez, and no change was meant. > [@](#): > > But the judge suggested such deference wasnā€™t justified because the **president himself had signaled that some rogue elements in the government were resisting his orders**. > > **ā€œHow do I know that the statements made by White House counsel are in fact the position of the president? ā€¦ How can I assume White House counsel is, in fact, acting at the direction of the president?** How can I assume that?ā€ Walton asked, pointing to an interview the president did last Friday with radio host Rush Limbaugh. Petard, hoist, etc. When youā€™ve lied for four years straight, and done everything you can to undercut the credibility of the federal government, this is what happens. A federal judge canā€™t trust anything coming from the White House to be true unless itā€™s proven in court. > **[Judge wants to know if Trump is backing off Russia probe declassification](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/16/judge-trump-russia-probe-declassification-429832)** > > Walton suggests White House counselā€™s office may have gone rogue ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/241 "2020-10-18T16:23:36Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The federal DOJ lawyer is opposing the request, saying that theyā€™d checked with the White House counsel, who said that the Presidentā€™s tweets werenā€™t meant to change the situation. > > The judge ainā€™t buying it: Does the same argument apply to his tweets? We have no proof that the tweet that started this thread was written by Trump and not some rogue element in the White House communications office. An interview with Limbaugh is probably really him, but what were his exact words in that interview? Trumpā€™s manner of speaking usually avoids anything clear and definite enough to be an actual order. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/242 "2020-10-18T16:28:21Z")
Essentially, the judge is calling Trumpā€™s bluff and making his enablers squirm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=13)