# Sam Stone believes Trump's tweets **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633 "2020-10-10T13:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/443 "2020-10-27T17:14:45Z")
I have no views on the extent to which **Sam** is or isn’t bigoted. But he continues to shamelessly promote obvious and long-debunked bullshit, and for that he should never be taken seriously on any subject. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/444 "2020-10-27T17:35:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I was under the impression that “Magnitsky Act” was shorthand for “sanctions.” Given **Sam\_Stone** ’s ignorance of actual facts, I couldn’t be sure that he actually knew that and thought it was something innocent; while the Trump campaign was regularly communicating with Russia and Russia was working to get Trump elected, Baby Trump was having meetings about how to pay back Russia for the help. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/445 "2020-10-27T17:54:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How have you managed to bypass or suppress all the messages society has been sending you, most of which white people don’t even detect, about the inferiority of black people and the superiority of white people? Ooh, secret messages! Undetectable ones! I’ll bet your newsletter is a hoot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/446 "2020-10-27T17:58:59Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Now, maybe your point is that all people, regardless of ethnic background, have a tendency to be influenced by social bias about the “other”. Yes, this is my point. And by his posts, Sam seems unaware and even uninterested in this aspect of society. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/447 "2020-10-27T17:59:19Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Given **Sam\_Stone** ’s ignorance of actual facts, I couldn’t be sure that he actually knew that and thought it was something innocent Given your inability to read, I’ll make allowances for the fact that you never noticed that I said exactly what the Magnitsky act was several posts before yours, But thanks for playing, ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/448 "2020-10-27T18:01:33Z")
Do you think Jim Crow society sent messages about inferiority? Do you think white people were consciously aware of all these kinds of influences? If not, do you think all these influences have entirely disappeared? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/449 "2020-10-27T18:08:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Ooh, secret messages! Undetectable ones! > > I’ll bet your newsletter is a hoot. The more a person mocks arguments instead of trying to understand them, the more ignorant a person will be. It’s a choice for sure, Sam. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/450 "2020-10-27T18:11:27Z")
What if the more you understand them, the more you realize they need to be mocked? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/451 "2020-10-27T18:17:31Z")
I’m sorry, aren’t you the guy that gulped onto Trump’s lie-baited hook and grinned as he clubbed you with an oar? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/452 "2020-10-27T18:19:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Do you think Jim Crow society sent messages about inferiority? Do you think white people were consciously aware of all these kinds of influences? If not, do you think all these influences have entirely disappeared? I think I am an individual, and not a ‘white people’. As such, it’s my responsibility to deal with other people fairly and without prejudice. PERIOD. The minute you start separating people into racial factions and pit them against each other, you are increasing racial strife and racism. It was true when Jim Crow did it, and it’s true when modern Progressives do it. For example, by demanding that blacks be graded differently because they can’t compete with ‘white’ course material. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/453 "2020-10-27T18:21:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think I am an individual, and not a ‘white people’. Ad such, it’s my responsibility to deal with other people fairly and without prejudice. PERIOD. I agree! And a critical part of this is to try one’s best to recognize and address bias and prejudice in broader society, which may have some influence even on well meaning people. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/454 "2020-10-27T18:22:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think I am an individual, and not a ‘white people’. As such, it’s my responsibility to deal with other people fairly and without prejudice. PERIOD. > > The minute you start separating people into racial factions and pit them against each other, you are increasing racial strife and racism. It was true when Jim Crow did it, and it’s true when modern Progressives do it. For example, by demanding that blacks be graded differently because they can’t compete with ‘white’ course material. You’d have more credibility in this if you didn’t uncritically believe many untrue things without much reflection. It’s not really fair to then complain about others uncritically believing the worst about you even if it is not true. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/455 "2020-10-27T18:28:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think I am an individual, and not a ‘white people’. As such, it’s my responsibility to deal with other people fairly and without prejudice. PERIOD. You are an individual that chickens out from inconvenient posts. We know. Who’s more foolish, the foolish liars or the fool who follows their lies? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/456 "2020-10-27T18:32:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > My ‘ideology’ is pretty much that of the enlightenment. Free speech, free association, a focus on the individual instead of the collective. The denial of racial superiority OR racial guilt, treating individuals based on their character and actions rather than their race or gender, allowing maximum freedom within the constructs of a civil society, a state that maintains civil society and peace rather than trying to manipulate or control it for ideological ends, a social safety net that helps the truly in need without becoming a crutch, a government fhat lives within its means, etc. I’ll make the generous assumption that you’re sincere in these beliefs. One might wonder, then, why you aren’t a progressive liberal, even in the more liberal (compared to the US) Canadian political context, since taken at face value these seem to describe liberal ideology. And the most charitable answer I can come up with is that these very broad generalizations can be applied to any political ideology with the appropriately creative interpretation that is politically correct for any desired ideology. It all depends on where you choose to draw the lines around these nebulous and superficially well-meaning concepts, and you, **Sam** , choose to draw these lines in some very strange places indeed. Based on your previous ramblings and general political outlook, for instance, one can safely assume that in your ideology “maximum freedom within the constructs of a civil society” means maximum freedom for corporations to exploit customers and workers alike, to trash the environment, to impair public safety – all aided by minimal regulation and ineffectual, impotent small government. Also, of course, maximum freedom for everyone to arm themselves to the teeth, again with minimal regulation. “A social safety net that helps the truly in need without becoming a crutch”? Give me a break. You have about as much interest in a real social safety net as your kindred Republicans. The “crutch” business wasn’t even necessary to throw in, but it certainly emphasizes how social assistance must be at a starvation level. I’m certain that in the 19th century you’d have been a big fan of Dickensian-era workhouses, which in many ways were worse than prisons. In fact you probably still are. Or how about “a government fhat lives within its means”? This is rather ironically known as “fiscal conservatism”. Ironic because in modern history, it’s traditionally been Republicans who have created the biggest deficits and contributed most to the national debt. In Canada, which is far more leftist/progressive than the US across all political parties, management of deficits and the national debt has been far more responsible than in the US. Furthermore, since self-professed “conservatives” believe in the lowest possible taxes (applied in the most unfair and reactionary way possible), I shudder to think where the savings commensurate with the government living “within its means” are going to come from. I rather strongly suspect that it would come from things like starving the poor, and drastically cutting down or entirely eliminating public health care. In short, your professed “enlightenment” is either delusional or a fraud, or both. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/457 "2020-10-27T18:41:30Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Given your inability to read, I’ll make allowances for the fact that you never noticed that I said exactly what the Magnitsky act was several posts before yours, > > But thanks for playing, I was clarifying my point, moron. Still haven’t addressed the facts and reports presented, I see. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/458 "2020-10-27T19:02:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Ooh, secret messages! Undetectable ones! Oh, they’re not so secret at all. And he didn’t say “_can’t_ detect”. He said “_don’t_ detect”. Although “_choose not to_” is more accurate for some. None so blind, yadda yadda yadda. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/459 "2020-10-27T19:13:16Z")
It seems to me that Sam’s world view is one more synonymous with a Libertarian or Objectivist (Randian?) social utopia. I can understand why he might describe it as "l"iberal, but it’s much closer to what we understand as "c"onservative with respect to American & Canadian politics. I think Sam’s objection to progressive politics stems not so much from a bigoted mindset of a Trump/GOP supporter but an ideologue who imagines social disparity based on racial bias is a problem that is being ginned up by “woke” politics. And I kind of see the desire to believe that because it obviates the need for the kinds of progressive ideology and policies he finds objectionable from his libertarian/conservative mindset. To the extent I’ve correctly characterized Sam’s views, his are idealistic and impractical, but I’m not sure that they are necessarily based on bigotry/bias. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/460 "2020-10-27T19:16:25Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > Do you think Jim Crow society sent messages about inferiority? Do you think white people were consciously aware of all these kinds of influences? If not, do you think all these influences have entirely disappeared? > > I think I am an individual, and not a ‘white people’. As such, it’s my responsibility to deal with other people fairly and without prejudice. PERIOD. > > The minute you start separating people into racial factions and pit them against each other, you are increasing racial strife and racism. It was true when Jim Crow did it, and it’s true when modern Progressives do it. For example, by demanding that blacks be graded differently because they can’t compete with ‘white’ course material. I _think_ you seem to be saying that you see your sole responsibility for fighting the Jim Crow system (and its more subtle cousins) lies in not personally conforming to and promoting the behaviors that it inherently makes the path of least resistance. Am I close? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/461 "2020-10-27T19:24:22Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > To the extent I’ve correctly characterized Sam’s views, his are idealistic and impractical, but I’m not sure that they are necessarily based on bigotry/bias. I think you’re on the right track. I know a lot of "c"onservative folks in Alberta, and much of their right-wing viewpoints come from a place of ignorance, rather than outright bigotry. They’ve generally been fed so much complete and utter bullshit for decades, that they can’t conceive of any other viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/462 "2020-10-27T19:30:58Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What if the more you understand them, the more you realize they need to be mocked? Your massive over-self-confidence precludes your ever reaching that point. You need to develop some humility before you can even begin to understand the arguments you find so offensive/threatening. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=24)