# Sam Stone believes Trump's tweets **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633 "2020-10-10T13:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/483 "2020-10-28T07:23:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, it’s saying if you grow up in a mostly Christian society, you’re going to have absorbed mostly Christian ideas of morality and behaviour, unless you e.g. make a _conscious_ effort to only follow Buddhist precepts. LOL I live in a christian society but it didnt take conscious effort to support gay marriage. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And by the way, who the fuck _are_ you, “newbie”-who-is-suddenly-so-active-in-multiple-contentious-threads? Youre surprised that forum with a great debates subforum is appealing to people who like debating contentious things? Really? Why? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/484 "2020-10-28T07:34:48Z")
> [@JBlackstone](#): > > LOL I live in a christian society but it didnt take conscious effort to support gay marriage. Being pro-gay is not unChristian. it’s in fact very Christ-like. And “absorbed _mostly_” does not mean “absorbed _all_ Christian…” nor “_only_ absorbed Christian…” I’m pretty sure you’re still down with the not murdering and stealing bits… > [@](#): > > Youre surprised that forum with a great debates subforum is appealing to people who like debating contentious things? Really? Why? _This_ isn’t Great Debates, M. Chaussette . ---
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/485 "2020-10-28T07:47:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Being pro-gay is not unChristian. it’s in fact very Christ-like. Christlike != Christian. The bible and the church are clear being gay is wrong. Even if they weren’t my society (Ireland) isvery clear on it. How did I manage to not be homophobic given all the messages? Or maybe I am homophobic and just don’t know it? > [@MrDibble](#): > > And “absorbed _mostly_ ” does not mean “absorbed _all_ Christian…” nor “ _only_ absorbed Christian…” So if you assert that I’ve inevitably absorbed objectionable christian messages by virtue of living in a christian society how exactly am i supposed to prove you wrong? > [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’re still down with the not murdering and stealing bits… They’re not christian values. They’re human values that predate Christianity and that I would still hold if Christianity has never existed. > [@MrDibble](#): > > _This_ isn’t Great Debates, M. Chaussette . So what? Why do you care what threads i post in? I just happened to be reading this one and I just happened to see something i didn’t agree with so i posted about it. If that’s Somehow “not allowed” then what’s the point of any of this, Herr Arschloch 😜 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/486 "2020-10-28T08:22:37Z")
> [@JBlackstone](#): > > Christlike != Christian. Opinions differ on that. > [@](#): > > The bible and the church are clear being gay is wrong. No, neither the [Bible](https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality) nor the (I presume Catholic) [Church](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/world/europe/pope-francis-same-sex-civil-unions.html) are “very clear” on this. At all. > [@](#): > > Even if they weren’t my society (Ireland) isvery clear on it. Really? You mean “very clear” as in “[among the most liberal in the world]([https://Attitudes](https://Attitudes) in Ireland towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people are regarded as among the most liberal in the world.)” on LGBT rights? > [@](#): > > How did I manage to not be homophobic given all the messages? Or maybe I am homophobic and just don’t know it? Maybe you were born at the right time. Maybe you’re lying. Who knows, and more importantly, who cares? Nothing a trock has to say is important anyway. > [@](#): > > So if you assert that I’ve inevitably absorbed objectionable christian messages by virtue of living in a christian society how exactly am i supposed to prove you wrong? I don’t think you can. > [@](#): > > They’re not christian values. They’re human values that predate Christianity and that I would still hold if Christianity has never existed. Are they? Plenty of cultures have held that murder was A-OK as long as you murdered the right people. Same-same with taking their stuff. > [@](#): > > So what? Why do you care what threads i post in? I care when Mr Obvious Sock is being obvious. Especially when it’s in antagonistic responses to my own posts or those of my friends. > [@](#): > > I just happened to be reading this one and I just happened to see something i didn’t agree with so i posted about it. “Just happened to” be following the pitting of a long-time poster and taking the contentious side. “Just happen to be” is soon going to be followed by “long time lurker”, no doubt. Socks are so predictable. > [@](#): > > If that’s Somehow “not allowed” Naah, it’s sock puppeteering that isn’t allowed, mate. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/487 "2020-10-28T08:28:15Z")
Well, I fucked up [that link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland)… ---
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/488 "2020-10-28T08:55:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, neither the [Bible](https://www.hrc.org/resources/what-does-the-bible-say-about-homosexuality) nor the (I presume Catholic) [Church](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/21/world/europe/pope-francis-same-sex-civil-unions.html) are “very clear” on this. At all. Ugh. What a load of handwaving nonsense that link is. There is a really easy way to see if the bible is pro gay or anti gay. You just look at what it says. There’s lots of famous anti-gay verses in the bible. I challenge you to find a single verse which portrays homosexuality specifically in a good light. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Really? You mean “very clear” as in “[among the most liberal in the world]([https://Attitudes](https://Attitudes) in Ireland towards lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people are regarded as among the most liberal in the world.)” on LGBT rights? First, your link doesn’t work. Second, my _lived experience_ (which, according to you, beats any cite) is that Ireland is still a very homophobic place. Third, if you knew anything about Ireland (which you clearly don’t) your know that it was a very anti-gay society for centuries and then got liberal very quickly in one generation. How is that possible if we’re all so susceptible to christian messages about how sinful being gay is because I can promise you one thing and that is that whatever made Ireland more liberal on gays it certainly has nothing to do with the Irish Catholic Church! > [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t think you can Then your argument is unfalsifiable so its worthless. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Are they? Plenty of cultures have held that murder was A-OK as long as you murdered the right people. Same-same with taking their stuff. And? Do you think this proves morality isn’t innate or something? What are you even saying with this? > [@MrDibble](#): > > “Just happened to” be following the pitting of a long-time poster and taking the contentious side Yes. It’s a really big thread so I thought “What’s going on here?” So I clicked on it and read what was at the time, the last 30 or so posts. I saw one which made me think “That’s a bit daft” so I replied to it. That’s literally all that happened. I then got ambushed by a massive arsehole who thinks this is all some big impossibility. You really do seem to be a nasty piece of work. Have you ever spoken to anyone about that? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/489 "2020-10-28T09:06:34Z")
Can we get this thread back to **Sam** and his unique version of reality? ---
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/490 "2020-10-28T09:13:45Z")
Ok. Sorry for the diversion. It’s not like talking to Mr dibble is a great way to spend the morning anyway 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/491 "2020-10-28T09:15:18Z")
> [@JBlackstone](#): > > my _lived experience_ (which, according to you, beats any cite) See, it’s stuff like that that points to the sockitude. How would you (incorrectly) know what one particular poster here thinks does or doesn’t beat a cite, Mr joined-last-week? Oh, I _know_ you participated in that thread - but enough to know who’s who in it? Please! Your mohair is showing. ---
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/492 "2020-10-28T09:23:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > See, it’s stuff like that that points to the sockitude. How would you (incorrectly) know what one particular poster here thinks does or doesn’t beat a cite, Mr joined-last-week? Oh, I _know_ you participated in that thread - but enough to know who’s who in it? Please! Your mohair is showing. Jesus… do you really think I’m incapable of remembering an exchange from three days ago? That’s quite a superiority complex you have there. Anyway, I promised gyrate I wouldn’t be a diversion any more so lets just leave it there eh? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/493 "2020-10-28T09:25:34Z")
You could just shut up and leave the thread quietly in an unsocklike manner… that’d show me. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/494 "2020-10-28T11:59:17Z")
> [@JBlackstone](#): > > That’s like saying that because you’ve grown up in a mainly Christian society then you have to be a Christian even if you don’t think you are. I’m not a Christian. I grew up in a Christian, protestant society. The ethics of Protestant Christianity surround me, including: -A belief that a personal pursuit of knowledge is more important than a trust in authoritarian knowledge. -A belief that hard work is a sign of personal virtue. -A belief that thrift is a sign of personal virtue. -A belief that overt boasting is a personal flaw, and humility is a personal virtue. -A belief that greed is a personal flaw, and that self-sacrifice is a personal virtue. and so on. Of _course_ people are surrounded by cultural beliefs. Of _course_ people are influenced by the spoken and unspoken values of the culture they grow up in. For example, Western culture often emphasizes individualism, to the extent that people consider an influence by their culture to be a personal flaw. I’ll wager you get a lot more people in Western cultures claiming some sort of supernatural immunity to cultural influences than you get in other cultures. It’s a bizarre idea, that hyperindividualism that suggests an individual doesn’t absorb the values of their culture. And it’s harmful, because people who can’t recognize cultural influences can’t analyze them, and can’t try to mitigate the ones they find harmful. So when I hear someone saying they don’t have any racist ideas or influences at all, despite having grown up in a culture suffused with racism, it tells me that they’re unable to reflect on themselves and on their behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/495 "2020-10-28T12:02:29Z")
I’m afraid i can’t respond to that because I already promised another poster that I’d drop the diversion, sorry 🙁 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/496 "2020-10-28T12:25:15Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > A willingness to believe any old goofy nonsense about Biden rather than seeing the obvious truth that Biden cares about his supporters while Trump does not. It’s also worth noting that Biden _also_ cares about Trump supporters. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/497 "2020-10-28T13:44:29Z")
Excellent point. Biden cares about people. Trump does not. Simple. Elegant. Fits the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/498 "2020-10-28T14:23:24Z")
It’s not unique enough. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/499 "2020-10-28T17:09:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So when I hear someone saying they don’t have any racist ideas or influences at all, despite having grown up in a culture suffused with racism, it tells me that they’re unable to reflect on themselves and on their behaviors. Absolutely. I think I started an entire thread based on this premise. It’s one of the most important things we need to understand about living in our culture. I don’t trust people who declare themselves “not racist” to be reliable narrators of themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/500 "2020-10-28T18:50:27Z")
I think it’s Dunning-Kruger. They are so inept and understanding racial bias that they think they’re really exceptional at seeing it. If they don’t scream the N-word on the bus they just pat themselves on the back for how awesome they are. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/501 "2020-10-28T19:52:31Z")
There’s some of that, to be sure; but there’s also this bizarre virtue signalling aspect to it. Have you ever had that co-worker who smirks, “I’ve never taken a sick day in 25 years”? and you’re like, asshole, that means you’re coming to work sick and spreading germs? That’s the same person. Rather than admit that everyone’s body lets germs in sometime, they regard getting sick as a personal failing; and rather than take care of their bodies, they just deny that disease can possibly affect them. Similarly, they insist they’ve never had a racist thought. Rather than admit that everyone’s brain lets in racist cultural idedas sometimes, they regard susceptibility to cultural influence as a personal failing; and rather than reflect on their own biases, they just deny that culture can possibly affect them. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/502 "2020-10-28T22:56:25Z")
That’s reasonable. I’m sure it’s a complex web of intermeshed stupidities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=26)