# Sam Stone believes Trump's tweets **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633 "2020-10-10T13:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/663 "2021-04-06T01:18:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > My first thought: What sad lives you all must live to spend this much effort trying to tear down fellow SDMB members ? You haven’t posted in this thread for its previous 500+ posts, and what finally brings you back in is the current, comparatively mild, eyerolling about your Canadian cheerleading for the US conservative movement? Fine by me, I just wouldn’t necessarily have expected that to be the criticism that triggered you. Also, Sam, you’ve been around these boards long enough to understand that tearing down sustained idiocy and other annoying behavior on the part of fellow SDMB members is a major part of what the Pit is for. So I’m not sure why you’re being so tsk-tsky and repent-ye-miserable-sinners about it all of a sudden. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/664 "2021-04-06T01:23:16Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > So, you like the “constant outrage and need to vent” your posts produce. Do they have a word in Canadian for that? > Would you go as far as saying that you post with the intent of causing “constant outrage and need to vent”? Are you serious? I have never posted a thing that was intended to rile anyone up (as opposed to making what I think is a fair point but which might annoy some). I post an argument, and when people choose to run to the pit and call me names (or commonly just do it in the thread) instead of refuting the argument, it tells me they don’t have a good answer. That’s it. It’s like the old saying, “If the facts are on your side, argue the facts. If they aren’t, pound the table.” Or in this case, pound on the poster who presented those uncomfortable facts. Keep that in mind if you are trying to ‘get’ me. The minute you veer off the debate and start discussing me and my character, I’m going to assume you just don’t have the facts or perhaps the chops to stay in the debate, You aren’t getting me, you are exposing yourself. I don’t take any of this personally. I am here to debate, have fun, share information, etc. I have nothing against any of you and would happily buy you a beer and hopefully have a pleasant chat if we ever met. I’m not trying to troll or make anyone mad. I’m just trying to defend my point of view. For all I know, the people arguing with me are wonderful people, good to their families and children, and fun to be around. I’d like to think so and assume nothing less without meeting you. Or maybe you are all axe murderers. The essence of fair debate is that _the words matter, and not the people uttering them_. That’s why ad-hominem is a fallacious debate tactic. But for some of you, it seems to be about all you know. That’s just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/665 "2021-04-06T01:26:54Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I post an argument, and when people choose to run to the pit and call me names (or commonly just do it in the thread) instead of refuting the argument, it tells me they don’t have a good answer. That’s it. That’s not it, though. Plenty of times, people refute your bad argument with good answers just fine, but also get annoyed with you for clinging so obstinately to the bad argument. Venting one’s annoyance in such situations is properly done in the Pit. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I don’t take any of this personally. Oh good, because you had me worried there for a minute. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/666 "2021-04-06T01:35:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Read it again you numnuts, I’m not saying that to Sam but to anothe posters that did indeed follow that path, one was banned and another just stopped posting as soon as it came out that he was indeed a holocaust denier. Sam and others can avoid that path. If they are willing. What bullshit. No one can read your post and not see what you’re insinuating. “Golly, you are an awful a lot like those guys who turned out to be Holocaust deniers” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/667 "2021-04-06T01:38:35Z")
Not bullshit considering again the sources Sam is using. The bullshit is yours alone. > [@FigNorton](#): > > I know the climate change stick up your ass goes straight out your mouth Oh, and BTW you did join us in Nov 19, 2020, by then almost all the ~~Cola Wars~~ Climate Change discussions were really out, and I was most involved in immigration, and race things, so besides being wrong, that is a very peculiar thing to know about me considering how recent did you join, what poster you were before? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/668 "2021-04-06T01:39:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > ? You haven’t posted in this thread for its previous 500+ posts, and what finally brings you back in is the current, comparatively mild, eyerolling about your Canadian cheerleading for the US conservative movement? Fine by me, I just wouldn’t necessarily have expected that to be the criticism that triggered you. Triggered? Nah. I was just bored, saw a notification of yet another pit comment about me, and decided to respond. Usually I don’t, or when I post in a pitting thread I do it humorously because otherwise it’s like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You get yourself dirty, and the pig likes it. But I’m human, and sometimes after watching dozens of personal attacks go by without answering I decide that enough is enough. > [@](#): > > Also, Sam, you’ve been around these boards long enough to understand that tearing down sustained idiocy and other annoying behavior on the part of fellow SDMB member is a major part of what the Pit is for. So I’m not sure why you’re being so tsk-tsky and repent-ye-miserable-sinners about it all of a sudden. I know that’s what the pit is, and I think it’s a bad idea. Which is why I almost never engage in it, and even though I get attacked relentlessly on this board I have always treated people here with respect when they aren’t attacking me. Maybe my memory is failing with age, but in my over 20 years here I don’t think I’ve ever pitted another doper… I used to think the pit was useful as a blow-off valve to keep personal attacks out of other forums, but for a long time now I have believed the pit has been used to attack the ‘other’, drive divisions between posters, and trigger a lot of people to flame out and get banned. And judging by the number of people that have been banned here, it’s hard to argue that the pit has done anything but raise the hostility lever between members. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/669 "2021-04-06T01:44:22Z")
You’re just hand-waving\* Sam. \*Whatever that means in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/670 "2021-04-06T01:47:42Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > But I’m human, and sometimes after watching dozens of personal attacks go by without answering I decide that enough is enough. Meh again, what you and the **Fig** are missing from my reply is that what you thought was your best quality, as in being in the right path by mentioning how many were against you, **was something I experienced too** , therefore I was even more on the correct path than you since time only showed how right me and the climate scientists were. So, as a followup to the OP, regarding Trump and the right wing media that is falling off the deep end: **Get better sources of information.** ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/671 "2021-04-06T01:49:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not bullshit considering again the sources Sam is using. Let me get this straight: You totally weren’t insinuating that I was heading down the path to holocaust denial, but considering the sources I use it’s totally fair to assume that I am heading down that path? Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/672 "2021-04-06T01:51:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Oh, and BTW you did join us in Nov 19, 2020, by then almost all the ~~Cola Wars~~ Climate Change discussions were really out, and I was most involved in immigration, and race things I hate to be the one to break it to you but you still bring it up. You just did. In fact, I’m pretty sure there’s a quote out there in an immigration thread where you opine that your debate opponent reminds you of climate change deniers. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/673 "2021-04-06T01:51:37Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > You’re just hand-waving\* Sam. > \*Whatever that means in your mind. If that was meant to be a witty callback to the other thread, I’ll give you half a point. If it was meant to be some kind of gotcha, then I’ve got to say… swing and a miss. Do try again. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/674 "2021-04-06T01:55:10Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I know that’s what the pit is, and I think it’s a bad idea. […] > > I used to think the pit was useful as a blow-off valve to keep personal attacks out of other forums, but for a long time now I have believed the pit has been used to attack the ‘other’, drive divisions between posters, and trigger a lot of people to flame out and get banned. And judging by the number of people that have been banned here, it’s hard to argue that the pit has done anything but raise the hostility lever between members. What do you mean, “banned here”? Do you mean, banned specifically for behavior in the BBQ Pit forum? If so, do you have a cite for that? Because ISTM that the vast majority of SDMB bannings are the result of behavior in non-Pit forums. If, on the other hand, all you’re trying to say is “There’s a lot of inter-Doper hostility in the Pit, and a lot of SDMB posters have been banned, and that shows that the Pit is a bad idea”, that’s another bizarrely flimsy argument. ISTM that if insults in the Pit really are “trigger[ing] a lot of people to flame out and get banned”, then the Pit is doing the Dope a favor by weeding out posters who aren’t mature enough to handle a “controlled burn” type of flame war without letting it jump the firebreak and lay waste to areas of civilization. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/675 "2021-04-06T01:56:38Z")
Again, that is considering the very disturbing path me and many other posters observed coming from some right wing posters in the past. In a way they did reflected the path that many Trump supporters arrived at on January 6th. BTW I still think you are indeed a Canadian as I have seen you post more local information from there in other threads, and since you still post some good info, I do not think you are at the radical level, just that you need to know what the American right wing infosphere is doing even to a Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/676 "2021-04-06T02:01:58Z")
Piffle, the same missing point would be if I had used evolution instead of Climate Change. The main point was that what Sam tried when climbing to his cross was asinine as posters like me did experience the same, as in seeing guys like you against me when still thinking about bitter grapes from past discussions. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/677 "2021-04-06T02:02:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If that was meant to be a witty callback to the other thread, I’ll give you half a point. {…} Damn, nothing gets past yo… > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > {…} If it was meant to be some kind of gotcha, then I’ve got to say… swing and a miss. Do try again. And you had my hopes up so high… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/678 "2021-04-06T02:10:42Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > I’m pretty sure there’s a quote out there in an immigration thread where you opine that your debate opponent reminds you of climate change deniers. Just a bit of background about that, several posters did start actually as racist nativists, that got hold of the then recent asinine talking point that to be an environmentalist one had to be a nativist too. > **[Greenwash: Nativists Cynically Working to Co-Opt Environmental Movement](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/greenwash-nativists-cynic_b_662749)** > > Environmentalists need to be aware of so-called "progressives for immigration reform" and their true motives. These individuals and organizations do not see protecting the environment as their primary goal. Suffice to say, I did not bring that up then. Again it came from nativists that then did go against me in the past (and it was years ago, again what poster are you?) and then one showed up as real “honest” to goodness Holocaust denier. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/679 "2021-04-06T02:12:01Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, that is considering the very disturbing path me and many other posters observed coming from some right wing posters in the past. In a way they did reflected the path that many Trump supporters arrived at on January 6th. This IMHO is a more plausible identification of a contributing factor to the bannings Sam mentioned than the notion that Pit insults are just making everyone more bad-tempered and cranky. ISTM that the general degradation of conservative discourse hit a lot of conservative Dopers fairly hard. Most conservative media nowadays has boiled down to a choice between full-on Trumpism, which requires a level of counterfactuality that is not reconcilable to the basic principles of the Straight Dope, and distraction tactics of anti-liberal alarmism and exaggeration to conceal the fact that the conservative movement at present doesn’t really have any ideas other than Trumpism. It is very tough to construct decent Dopeworthy arguments starting from either of those ideological stances. Naturally, there still are some decent Dopeworthy arguments on various subjects popping up from conservative-minded Dopers here and there on the boards, but AFAICT the arguments themselves are not specifically conservative in their point of view. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/680 "2021-04-06T02:38:53Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > Read it again you numnuts, I’m not saying that to Sam but to anothe posters that did indeed follow that path, one was banned and another just stopped posting as soon as it came out that he was indeed a holocaust denier. Sam and others can avoid that path. If they are willing. > > What bullshit. No one can read your post and not see what you’re insinuating. “Golly, you are an awful a lot like those guys who turned out to be Holocaust deniers” It’s not bullshit at all. He was clearly not talking about Sam specifically, but about the general pattern of what happens with conservative posters here. If he’d wanted to attack Sam as a Nazi, **he’d have said that**. This is the Pit—you don’t need to say coded shit here. What he was saying was that Sam is starting to act like these other posters. He wasn’t saying he was a Nazi yet, but that he’s headed that way. And he’s not wrong. The guy has defended the 1/6/2021 terrorist attack on the Capitol, grabbing some QAnon arguments. He borrows arguments from the alt-right. It’s not much further for him to actually go full alt-right. And guess what the alt-right is? It’s just a rebranding for white nationalism and Nazism. If Sam feels insulted by the comparison, then it’s up to him to pull back, not some stranger to get offended on his behalf and start trying to language police the Pit. I know you’ve only been here half a year, but surely you can tell by now that the only things people get upset at you in the Pit over are factual inaccuracies and punching down instead of up. If you’re going to get offended if someone compares some people to Nazis, this isn’t the place for you. Trying to shut down the discourse of where the right wing in the US is headed will not work. I’ve pointed out several times that Trump ran on the 14 points of fascism. He even tried to overturn an election by force. Yet 95% of Republicans stand with him. And Sam, despite being Canadian, seems to want to join them. He may not be alt-right himself, but he seems increasingly willing to side with them on some pretty awful things—anything in his pursuit of attacking “liberals.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/681 "2021-04-06T03:00:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Plenty of times, people refute your bad argument with good answers just fine, but also get annoyed with you for clinging so obstinately to the bad argument. And what’s going on now with Sam’s posts in his GD high-speed rail thread is a classic illustration of this. Yesterday, Sam starts a thread criticizing passenger rail development projects on the grounds that electric cars have the potential to be more fuel-efficient per passenger mile than train travel. Yesterday, I point out in that thread that that doesn’t take into account the fact that individual car travel can’t be a complete substitute for mass transit. Today, Sam is back in the thread hammering away at the potential fuel-efficiency superiority of electric cars as an argument against passenger rail development, still completely ignoring the crucial structural differences between private individual-vehicle transportation and mass transit. As many other posters have noted, it’s not that Sam can’t make a reasonable argument when he has a reasonable position to argue for. What’s annoying is his tendency to stubbornly refuse to recognize complicating factors that undermine the narrative he’s pushing. I personally don’t spend most of my Pit time critiquing individual posters, and even when I do critique them I tend not to get very Pitty about it, but it’s hard not to sympathize with people getting frustrated enough to call Sam some Pitty names when he can act so exasperatingly pigheaded in his debating. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2021, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/682 "2021-04-06T03:11:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If he’d wanted to attack Sam as a Nazi, **he’d have said that**. This is the Pit—you don’t need to say coded shit here. Bullshit. Of course shit like that has to be coded, even here. It was pure “well, I’m not calling you a Nazi but…”. Spare me the five pages of excuses. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=35)