# Sam Stone believes Trump's tweets **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2020, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633 "2020-10-10T13:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1224 "2021-09-28T05:03:18Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > He knows he’s lying, he’s just doing it because he’d rather lie, and win an argument, than be a decent human being and lose honestly. > > Has he ever won though? I’m sure in his mind his obfuscations are devastating. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1225 "2021-09-28T18:58:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m sure in his mind his obfuscations are devastating. Yes, I often flinch when he punches himself in the nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1226 "2021-09-28T19:38:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Are you kidding? Not in the least. I repeat: on what possible scale that also includes Donald Trump could Joe Biden be credibly described as “a spectacular failure”? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Turning Afghanistan over to the Taliban That “turnover” was negotiated with the Taliban during the Trump administration, remember? The rest of your post is along similar lines: you have to pretend that Biden’s responsible for everything that Trump did in order to make Biden out to be “disastrous”. Meanwhile, of course, conservatives continue to recklessly pursue genuinely disastrous policies with regard to mishandling COVID, encouraging conspiracy theories and insane vigilantism, undermining election procedures and suppressing votes in order to enable minority rule, and threatening to shut down the government (yet again) and cause the US to default on its debt. Sam, when are you and other self-described “rational conservatives” going to wake up to the fact that you need to focus on fixing your own catastrophically malfunctioning movement and ideology? While you sit here enjoying your feeling of martyrdom at being “picked on by libs”, all the while lazily relying on liberals to do the work of governing responsibly, your fellow conservatives are on a perpetual anti-science, anti-fact, anti-government, anti-democracy rampage. It’s not enough just to pat yourself on the back for not being an outright flaming-loon Trump supporter. You need to take some responsibility for rescuing your movement and your party/ies from being dominated and directed by flaming-loon Trump supporters. Don’t just sit there on your ass and expect the Democrats/liberals to do the work of maintaining a functioning democracy while you amuse yourself by sneering at them. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1227 "2021-09-28T19:58:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sam, when are you and other self-described “rational conservatives” going to wake up to the fact that you need to focus on fixing your own catastrophically malfunctioning movement and ideology? While you sit here enjoying your feeling of martyrdom at being “picked on by libs”, all the while lazily relying on liberals to do the work of governing responsibly, your fellow conservatives are on a perpetual anti-science, anti-fact, anti-government, anti-democracy rampage. I gave him the chance here. He decided to ignore the evidence. > [@Sam Stone believes Trump's tweets](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1016): > > What is the individual cost of this madness? Sam mentions some gadgets which somehow resulted because of trickle-down economics (TDE), but he hasn’t really explained that TDE was necessary for any of these things, especially given Western civilization’s rather impressive track record on creating technical shit, especially from 1455-onward. In fact, we can safely say that a non TDE world gets us to 1980s levels of civilization, which isn’t bad. Hell, we had dial-up back then. But I digress. W… ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1228 "2021-09-28T20:06:55Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > How long before the next financial crisis? 5 years? 10? 2? Sam’s ideological cohorts here in the United States are _really_ hoping for… Friday. Your people are evil, Sam. Your ideology is corrupt. You should be ashamed of yourself for still falling for this bullshit and these people. Oh, wait, you don’t. You don’t live here, with you and your types exercising bullshit minority power-plays with a $22 trillion economy. But you will suffer if the Republicans succeed. We all will. > ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1229 "2021-09-28T20:18:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Biden’s ‘smart foreign policy’ has alienated most American allies. Europe is rethinking NATO. Trump spent at least 4 years shitting on NATO, suggesting it’s obsolete, whining about other countries paying their fair share like it’s an appetizer plate at Applebees and not a central part of American strategic power, implying that the US might not honor its treaty obligations. You have to be a fucking moron to have watched Trump undermine NATO for 4 years like that, and lay it at Biden’s feet. Either that, or just an absolute unprincipled liar who enjoys smelling his own bullshit. Or a little of both. Ditto for the failed Republican 20-year military adventure in Afghanistan, started by Bush and fatally wounded by Trump signing a “deal” that placed the blowup squarely in his successor’s lap. Blaming it on Biden is callow, shameless lying, and I think you know that. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1230 "2021-09-28T20:20:12Z")
The Right has made it patently obvious and clear over the last 15 years or so that they have no interest at all in governing, or creating policy, or doing anything to benefit the country or the population. They have not tried to hide this. It’s out in the open. They care about seizing and maintaining power, so that the money will continue to flow to themselves and their current allies. That’s all. They see a future with the insanely ultra rich and the 99.99% in virtual serfdom. And they want to be in that tiny minority. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1231 "2021-09-28T20:20:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That “turnover” was negotiated with the Taliban during the Trump administration, remember? The way it was done was not. Defenders of this administration always do this: They change the argument to whether pulling out of Afghanostan was a good idea or not, when the actual criticism regards the incredibly fucked-up way it was done, and the continuing disregard for Americans, green-card and SIV holders still trapped in Afghanistan. It’s disgusting and shameful. Would Trump have screwed up just as badly? I dunno. Maybe. Maybe even worse, for all I know. But Trump isn’t President, and Biden is. Going back to Trump is just whataboutism, right? Oh, and Biden lied. Here’s what he told George Stephanopoulis about the decision to not leave any troops behind: > [@](#): > > STEPHANOPOULOS: But your top military advisors warned against withdrawing on this timeline. They wanted you to keep about 2,500 troops. > > BIDEN: No, they didn’t. It was split. Tha– that wasn’t true. That wasn’t true. > > STEPHANOPOULOS: They didn’t tell you that they wanted troops to stay? > > BIDEN: No. Not at — not in terms of whether we were going to get out in a timeframe all troops. They didn’t argue against that. > > STEPHANOPOULOS: So no one told — your military advisors did not tell you, “No, we should just keep 2,500 troops. It’s been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. We can continue to do that”? > > BIDEN: No. No one said that to me that I can recall. So according to Biden, none of his military advisors told him to leave a force behind. Today in Senate testimony, his generals said that wasn’t true. You can see the testimony here: > Both Generals McKenzie and Milley claimed under oath today that not only did they repeatedly advise the president that 2500-4500 soldiers should remain in Afghanistan, but that if they were all removed the government would almost certainly fall to the Taliban. This also contradicts Biden’s statement that they felt there was a good chance that the Afghan government would hold. You all can defend Biden as much as you want, but the country doesn’t agree with you. Today’s Rasmussen tracking poll has Biden’s ‘strongly approve’ number at 21%. That’s the Democratic ‘base’ and pretty much no one elae. His ‘strongly disapprove’ is at 49%, and disapproval in general at 58%. So his disapproval index is at -28%. Before the Afghanistan withdrawal his disapproval index was in single digits. Put as much lipstick on this pig as you want - The way the Afghanistan withdrawal was handled, and Biden’s responses to criticism over it (anger, blustering, doubling down on the ‘correctness’ of what he did) alienated Americans further. > **[Daily Presidential Tracking Poll](https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/current_events/politics/prez_track_jan12)** > > The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll, Sponsored by Matt Palumbo's "How the Left Hijacked and Weaponized the Fact-Checking Industry." Monday shows... Biden never cared whether the people promised sanctuary would get out. Here’s what he said in 2010: > **[Biden in 2010 reportedly told a US diplomat 'f--- that' when asked if the US...](https://news.yahoo.com/biden-2010-reportedly-told-us-183220949.html)** > > "F--- that, we don't have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it," Biden reportedly said. > [@](#): > > Not long after the Taliban was defeated following the 2001 invasion by the US, Biden as a senator toured a school in Kabul and was confronted by a young girl. “You cannot leave. They will not deny me learning to read. I will read, and I will be a doctor like my mother. America must stay,” the girl said, per comments Biden made to [the New Yorker](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/02/16/a-democratic-world) in 2004. > > Biden characterized meeting this girl as “a catalytic event for me,” stating that she was essentially saying to him, “Don’t f— with me, Jack. You got me in here. You said you were going to help me. You’d better not leave me now.” > > But Biden’s views changed over the years as the conflict raged on. > > Holbrooke, who was the Obama administration’s special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2010, asked Biden whether the US had a moral obligation to remain in Afghanistan to protect people like that little girl. > > “Fuck that, we don’t have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it,” Biden replied, according to Holbrooke’s diary, as cited by the Atlantic. That girl would probably be 25 now. I imagine she’s either in hiding now, or is wearing a burka and keeping her head down, or perhaps married off to a Taliban fighter. What a guy, that Joe Biden. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1232 "2021-09-28T20:22:44Z")
Man, you, too, need to see a psychiatrist. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1233 "2021-09-28T20:25:40Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Trump spent at least 4 years shitting on NATO, suggesting it’s obsolete, whining about other countries paying their fair share like it’s an appetizer plate at Applebees and not a central part of American strategic power, implying that the US might not honor its treaty obligations. Whataboutism. I’m not here to defend Trump. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1234 "2021-09-28T20:30:10Z")
I could be wrong - I’ve underestimated the crazy before - but my gut tells me that the debt ceiling gets done. It’s just that it’ll unfortunately come at the expense of Biden’s agenda and, quite possibly, democratic party unity. Some might shrug and say “So what?” The so what is that nothing changes – everyone can see how blatantly corrupt the Republicans are, how criminal the previous administration was, and in the end, not enough people seem to care, to stand behind someone long enough to actually reverse the corruption of the far right. Centrist guy: _“I voted for Biden to fix it, and he ain’t fixed it. I just won’t vote no more.”_ I don’t think we will end up defaulting on the debt - maybe “hope” is more like it. But the Republicans may well succeed in inflicting so much political damage that Biden may be unable to govern. And considering how there’s a very serious breakdown in the global supply chain, a potential financial crisis in China, and a very serious energy crisis looming as we approach winter, we may have a major crisis on top of the already devastating crisis of the pandemic. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1235 "2021-09-28T20:33:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So his disapproval index is at -28% Your math isn’t so hot. The Rasmussen poll has an approval of 41% and disapproval of 58%. That’s a net disapproval of 17%, not 28%. Of course, Rasmussen is well known to have a bias, which is why 538 adjusts their score. They come up with an adjusted score of 52/43, or a 9% net disapproval. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1236 "2021-09-28T20:36:06Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > > Trump spent at least 4 years shitting on NATO, suggesting it’s obsolete, whining about other countries paying their fair share like it’s an appetizer plate at Applebees and not a central part of American strategic power, implying that the US might not honor its treaty obligations. > > Whataboutism. I’m not here to defend Trump. No, garbage-dick. You’re just here to get every single one of his policy goals enacted by posting every single RW glurge you can to tear-down the opposition. You could be replaced on this board by a fucking RW media aggregator script. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1237 "2021-09-28T20:50:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You could be replaced on this board by a fucking RW media aggregator script. This probably explains my rage as much as anything when it comes to corresponding with “conservatives” these days. Not a goddamn one of them has an original idea, anything that they’ve actually personally analyzed on their own. I say not a one - maybe there are a handful out there. I just don’t see many. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1238 "2021-09-28T20:51:38Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Whataboutism. I’m not here to defend Trump. What an absolute wad of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1239 "2021-09-28T21:07:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The way the Afghanistan withdrawal was handled, and Biden’s responses to criticism over it […] alienated Americans further. That can all be perfectly true without in any way implying that Biden’s whole Presidency so far, or perhaps even his whole existence, is “a spectacular failure” in any meaningful sense. Which is what you were exaggeratedly claiming. Nobody here is saying in any way that Biden’s flaws and errors can’t be criticized. But your attempting to spin this as OMG Biden is so terrible and fucking up so bad, especially completely decontextualized from what he inherited from Trump and the ongoing malevolent obstructionist from Republicans, is both irresponsible and wholly craven. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1240 "2021-09-28T21:16:47Z")
Rasmussen is a terrible poll. Biden was still right to leave, and go against his advisors recommendations to prolong the war indefinitely. It was a politically courageous move, and one that his predecessors were unwilling to take. That his poll numbers have dropped a few points doesn’t change that this was the right move for the country. The choice was leaving or staying indefinitely. There was never going to be a perfect time to leave with no risk. And now we’re out, finally. After years of wasted lives and wasted money, we’re out. Thank God for Joe Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1241 "2021-09-28T21:23:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Rasmussen is a terrible poll. They aren’t terrible; they just have a predictable and correctible bias. 538 gives them a B rating, which is a little above average. It’s just that they have a several-point right-wing bias that needs to be subtracted. The Morning Consult poll, which also came out yesterday, also has a B rating but is biased in the other direction. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1242 "2021-09-28T21:25:52Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Your math isn’t so hot. The Rasmussen poll has an approval of 41% and disapproval of 58%. That’s a net disapproval of 17%, not 28%. The disapproval rating is based on strongly approve vs strongly disapprove. Those numbers are 49% and 21% respectively. From the second paragraph of the page: > [@](#): > > The latest figures include 21% who Strongly Approve of the job Biden is doing and 49% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -28. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633/1243 "2021-09-28T21:31:11Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Rasmussen is a terrible poll. If you want a daily tracking poll it’s now all there is, as Gallup has stopped tracking. All polls are biased. Read them all with that knowledge. I like to read multiple polks with different voter assumptions, but unfortunately I can’t find any other daily tracking polis. That said, Rassmussen is well respected and they publish their methodology and their history. It may skew slightly to the right, but all polls have skew reflecting the choices of the pollsters. If any pollster tells you their poll is the honest, unbiased truth, find another one because they are lying to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sam-stone-believes-trumps-tweets/922633.md?page=63)