If I knew who Samantha Bee was, I might give a rip.
The standard that Barr is being held to is “Don’t be a racist.” Where has Samantha Bee violated this standard?
So misogyny is fine in the offensive, bigoted statements hierarchy? Now, I have never been one to advocate mob justice for speech or content. However, if we are going to have mob justice for speech I’d like to see it applied to sexist, homophobic, ageist, and/or racist speech, jokes, movies, and music in a non-capricious manner.
This cherry picking of moments to be “I’m outraged” about is troubling. Did people on this board get on Jesse Jackson’s case for stating that he wanted to castrate Barack Obama? Neutering the black man seems to be racist. So, it seems to me, that quite a few people get a pass for their racial, sexist, etc. transgressions because of their political affiliation.
I notice people are once again forgetting that Roseanne Barr was not fired for a single tweet. She has a history of saying racist, horrible things. She had even previously made a tweet she had to delete that supported the whole “fake shooter” conspiracy. Barr was on a short leash.
So even if we were to pretend that using cunt (which is not universally regarded as sexist) is the same as calling a black person an ape (which is universally considered racist), it still doesn’t fucking work. Barr actually is an outspoken racist with racist comment history. Bee is not any form of sexist.
Oh, and when Republicans or conservatives are trying this* tu quoque* argument, do you not notice you are claiming Roseanne as one of your own?
She’s a conspiracy nut. She’s at most part of the alt-right. Making this a liberals against conservatives thing means you’re saying the racist asshole was not a CINO. You sure you want to do that? You sure you want to give the left a racist they can hold up as a conservative?
Who is advocating “mob justice”? Criticizing someone isn’t “mob justice”. It’s okay to criticize people for saying bigoted things. And it’s okay to apologize if one has said something bigoted. And it’s okay that sometimes companies decide not to continue an association with someone who said something bigoted, especially when they have a history of doing so unapologetically.
These are all entirely in keeping with the 1st amendment and the philosophy of free speech. Criticism is vital to free speech.
It is racist to compare Barack Obama to a monkey, it is not racist to compare donald trump to a monkey. It is, in both cases, offensive. (Although in the later case, more so to the monkey.)
I think it was over the top, a little much, and I would have advised her to not say it in such a way. Standard-issue normal people can be offended by the vulgarity of the C word.
Conservatives, however, are just fine and dandy with the idea of just grabbing a woman right by the pussy, so fuck their pretend hurt feelings.
The double standard is racist. It might be well intentioned racism but it’s still racist to have different standards based solely on race.
It’s based on history, not race. There’s a long history of using ape and monkey comparisons to demean and dehumanize black people. There is no such history for white people.
That’s not what racism means.
I think misogyny, in the abstract, is as bad as racism. I don’t think that all instances of misogyny are equally bad, though. And I don’t think that all instances of racism are equally bad. I think it follows, then, that some instances of misogyny are not going to be as bad as some instances of racism. Calling a black person an ape is very, very racist. Calling a woman is arguably misogynistic at best. I don’t think there’s a double standard for punishing mild misogyny more lightly than heavy racism.
Yes, they did. Although I’d argue that taking Jackson’s comments about Obama as evidence that Jackson harbors a fundamental dislike of black people is absurd - about as absurd as taking Bee’s use of the word “cunt” and extrapolating that to a broad dislike of women in general.
Incidentally, do you think Samantha Bee is a misogynist?
So, it’s racist to recognize that racist comments are only directly offensive to the race they are intended to demean?
That’s pretty bizarre, octo. You sure you thought that one through?
So different standards for behavior based solely on race is described with what word?
Stupidity.
I don’t disagree with that. But by what standard do we judge and punish speech with public outcry? The difference between now and a decade ago is that what happened locally was local. Now that may be good and that may be bad, it’s hard to say. What I can say is that the speed and reach of modern communications has made the “consequences” for the utilization of freedom of expression awfully capricious.
Good points. Which I agree with. Bigotry is a state of mind not necessarily an action. Let’s say a black man called another black man an ape. Would that mean that the black man is racist and hates black people in general? It depends on the state of mind of the speaker does it not?
Do I think Samantha Bee is a misogynist because of the usage of “cunt?” I’m not sure what’s in her head. By the standards here I think it would be but I have a hard time with the concept that a particular expression is intrinsically bigoted. I think context matters. Otherwise, 99% of rap is racist.
If someone hates you for the color of your skin and they are kicking your skull in while calling you “nigger”, “cracker”, “_____” it doesn’t matter their color or your color. It’s pretty offensive and racially motivated language directed at the victim and the way the word was used in the 1950s is different than the way language is used today.
Anyways, I don’t see what’s so difficult about holding people to the same standards. If we, as a society, are punishing offensive expressions than be consistent. Don’t give pet categories of people indulgences. Otherwise, we are going to be, as a society, in an ever escalating battle to find something to be offended about and use that as a weapon on those that are perceived to be part of a competing ideological tribe.
We are holding them to the same standards – don’t say or do racist things. If someone does so, they’ll get criticized for it, and may even suffer some social consequences.
So, if I link a tremendous amount of racist songs, comedy bits, and people that society isn’t punishing would you concede that there is a double standard?
There are many double standards in the world. The subject of this thread isn’t one of them, IMO. I’m sure you could find several if you really tried, but no one has denied the existence of double standards.
Did you not read the OP? Where the OP asked about liberal outrage concerning Samantha Bee?
What about it? I don’t think it’s a double standard. If you want to find other double standards, I’m sure you can find them, but that wouldn’t prove anything.
A slur directed at a woman by a woman differs from a slur directed at a woman by a man, or one directed at a black by a white. We live in a status hierarchy in which some birth-traits put you at the top of the heap and other traits put you further down. That doesn’t mean that those birth-traits are genuinely superior–just that our society treats them as such. But those classifications–white, male, Christian, hetero, etc.–supply their holder with an unearned status conferred at birth.
So when a man insults a woman he’s punching down. When a white insults a black, he (or she) is punching down.
When Sam Bee uses a vulgar insult about another (white) woman, she’s not punching down.
When Roseanne Barr uses a comparison to an ape about a black person, she IS punching down. (Despite the obvious fact that one Valerie Jarrett is worth a gross of Roseanne Barrs.)
Cries of “double standard” make sense only for comparing like with like: two instances of racial insult in which both parties are punching down; two instances of vulgar language in which both parties are punching sideways; etc.
What we have here does not justify the use of the term “double standard” by persons of integrity. (Of course that won’t stop the integrity-challenged from trying.)
That’s the issue in a nutshell. Or in other words: the right has nothing, no matter how loudly they try to make it ‘something.’