# Samclem, come on down! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094 "2007-02-13T23:27:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/121 "2007-02-14T21:58:19Z")
"Unit 731 was a covert medical experiment unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that researched biological warfare through human experimentation during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945) and World War II. It was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes carried out by Japanese personnel. Officially known by the Imperial Japanese Army as the “Political Department and Epidemic Prevention Research Laboratory”, it was initially set up as a political and ideological section of the Kempeitai military police of pre-Pacific War Japan. It was meant to counter the ideological or political influence of enemies, and to reinforce the ideology of military units. The unit was disguised as a water purification unit, and was based in the Pingfang district of the northeast Chinese city of Harbin, part of the puppet state of Manchukuo. It worked through Japanese political propaganda and as an ideological representative of the Imperial Japanese Army’s Kodoha (Imperial way faction, or war party). In the first phase this section drove against communist propaganda, but extended its responsibilities in other directions, at home and overseas. It was a rough equivalent to the NKVD political sections and or politruk (political commissar) units of the Soviets; or the German Nazi SS propaganda departments. They promoted racial superiority, racialist theories, counterespionage, intelligence, political sabotage and infiltration of enemy lines. They liased with the Manchukuo military police, the Manchu intelligence service, regular Manchu police, Manchu Residents committees, local Nationalist Manchu Parties and the Japanese Secret Service detachment in Manchukuo. The section in Manchukuo used some agents from White Russian, Chinese, Manchu, Mongol and other foreign backgrounds for special services or covert actions at home and abroad. As many as ten thousand people, both civilian and military, of Chinese, Korean, Mongolian, and Russian origin were subjects of experimentation by Unit 731.[1] Some American and European Allied prisoners of war also died at the hands of Unit 731.[2] In addition, the use of biological weapons researched in Unit 731’s bioweapons program resulted in tens of thousands of deaths in China – possibly as many as 200,000 casualties by some estimates.[3] Unit 731 was one of many units used by the Japanese to research biological warfare; other units included Unit 516 (Qiqihar), Unit 543 (Hailar), Unit 773 (Songo unit), Unit 100 (Changchun), Unit 1644 (Nanjing), Unit 1855 (Beijing), Unit 8604 (Guangzhou), Unit 200 (Manchuria) and Unit 9420 (Singapore). Many of the scientists involved in Unit 731 went on to prominent careers in politics, academia and business. Some were arrested by Soviet forces and tried at the Khabarovsk War Crime Trials; others, who surrendered to the Americans, were granted amnesty in exchange for the data collected.[4] Because of their brutality, Unit 731’s actions have now been officially considered by the United Nations as war crimes." > **[Unit 731](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731)** > > Unit 731 (Japanese: .mw-parser-output .templateruby\>rt{font-variant-east-asian:ruby;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .templateruby.large{font-size:250%}.mw-parser-output .templateruby.large\>rt{font-size:50%}７（なな）３（さん）１（いち）部（ぶ）隊（たい）, Hepburn: Nana-san-ichi Butai),\[note 1\] short for Manshu Detachment 731 and also known as the Kamo Detachment: 198  and the Ishii Unit, was a covert biological and chemical warfare research and development unit of the Imperial Japanese Army that engaged in lethal Uni... ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/122 "2007-02-14T21:58:28Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Wow. Just, wow. That woman is a four-star, gold-foil dipshit. Let’s see, the bunny in the picture is offensive, because he’s pictured with buck teeth. Here’s a hint, lady: do a Yahoo Images search for “cartoon bunny”. In fact, [here you go](http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=cartoon+bunny&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8). Notice something about more than half of them? _Bunnies are drawn with buck teeth you fucking moron!_ What else do we have here? Ah, this is a good one – ‘“…when you open the card up, it says ‘Hoppy Easter,’ which is another derogatory phrase,” said Low’. How in the _fuck_ do you get “derogatory” out of “Hoppy Easter”?? It’s a kids joke that you’ll find on hundreds of Easter cards! Sweet mother of fuck, why are people so in love with being offended?? (end hijack) [/QUOTE] Yes, bunnies have buck teeth. Do they also have slanty eyes and wear conical hats and cheongsam? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/123 "2007-02-14T22:02:47Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Ask any of your Japanese friends if “Jap” is a mild slur. [/QUOTE] But you forgot the part where I said I don’t use the term “Jap” in real life. I don’t use the term “Jap”, and have no desire to use the term “Jap”, and I’m not outraged that I’m not allowed to use the term “Jap” in public, and I’m not upset that Japs call each other Japs except they say Japz, so it’s racist that can’t I call them Japs, or similar nonsense. And calling any particular person a “Jap” WOULD make it an ethnic slur, because then the whole point is to single out and deride the person based on their ethnicity. I’m not going to use what I consider even mild ethnic slurs, and even if I thought a word wasn’t really an ethnic slur I’d still refrain from using it if there was a reasonable possibility that a reasonable person would take it as an ethnic slur, and such reasons might be something like reading a posting on a message board, “I’m a person of that ethnicity, and think such a term is an ethnic slur.” Life is too short to go around annoying people for no good reason, you should only annoy people when you have a really good reason to annoy them. That still doesn’t mean I’ll have a visceral reaction to seeing “JAPS BOMB PEARL HARBOR”. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/124 "2007-02-14T22:32:34Z")
I agree that it is a derogatory term. But it’s not a _very_ derogatory term. If **Samclem** had just cringed a little and let it go, it would not have attracted much attention. And that’s all that would have happened. But, since a few people are hyper-sensitive, who must be politically correct at all costs, we now have magnified a minor infraction of politeness into a mountain of concern and a fountain of fear. What will we say next that someone objects to? Can I call the inhabitants of Lower Slobovia “Slobs”? ---
**Author:** ![auRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@auRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auRa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/125 "2007-02-14T22:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] What _I_ find offensive is how the third one down in the first column is using the wrong battery. Let’s do some _research_, people! [/QUOTE] Nuh-uh. [American bunny](http://www.energizer.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg) may very well be Energizer-powered, but here in Europe, it’s [Duracell](http://www.waficom.com/3d_site/images/adv_models/duracellbunny.gif) all the way. Duracell was the original. The Energizer bunny was originally a parody of the Duracell bunny, quoth [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duracell_Bunny). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/126 "2007-02-14T22:37:50Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Ok, then, no “Japs”. We’ll cal them “_Evil, Mass murdering, Biological weapon using, vivisectionist, chemical weapon using, torturing, cannibalistic, mass raping, genocidal, war criminals_ of Japanese descent”. _Much_ better. > **[Japanese war crimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_atrocities)** > > Both before and during World War II, the Empire of Japan committed numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity across various Asian–Pacific nations, most notably during the Second Sino-Japanese and Pacific Wars. These crimes have been referred to as "the Asian Holocaust" or "Japan's Holocaust",: 13–14, 282, 294  as well as the "Rape of Asia".: 93  Most of these crimes occurred during the early part of the reign of Emperor Hirohito. Deaths are estimated at between 19 million and 30 The Imper... There is no term that is too strong to use for these vile acts. [/QUOTE] Out of interest, what label do you apply to Germans? Just trying to clear up who we can insult based upon atrocities from two generations back. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/127 "2007-02-14T22:50:32Z")
[QUOTE=auRa] Nuh-uh. [American bunny](http://www.energizer.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg) may very well be Energizer-powered, but here in Europe, it’s [Duracell](http://www.waficom.com/3d_site/images/adv_models/duracellbunny.gif) all the way. Duracell was the original. The Energizer bunny was originally a parody of the Duracell bunny, quoth [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duracell_Bunny). [/QUOTE] Perhaps, but the original Duracell commercial in North America featured a bunch of animal toys (of various colours and species) pounding on snare drums, running constantly until their batteries died (this was but one in a series of “practical demonstration” ads Duracell ran in the eighties). It was the pink _elephant_ who lasted the longest and had the Duracell. When Energizer made their version, they made all the snare-drum animals bunnies and then upstaged them by having their mobile bass-drum bunny waltz in, sunglasses and all. I can’t speak for Europe, or course, buncha frog-faced heathens. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/128 "2007-02-14T23:07:29Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If Samclem had just cringed a little and let it go, it would not have attracted much attention. And that’s all that would have happened. I think that perfectly describes what it was that **samclem** actually did. I already quoted him in my post#53, but here, once again, is **samclem** ’s perfectly mild and polite request to **Quartz** concerning the word “Jap”: > [@samclem](#): > > […] I think you could try to not use terms that are considered, with good reason, denigrating in todays world. Thanks. > [@Musicat](#): > > But, since a few people are hyper-sensitive, who must be politically correct at all costs, we now have magnified a minor infraction of politeness into a mountain of concern and a fountain of fear. The only “hyper-sensitive” person that I can see around here is the OP of this thread, whose feelings were so wounded by **samclem** ’s gentle admonition that he felt impelled to start a Pit thread complaining that **samclem** had “castigated” him. And I guess some of the other anti-PC whiners here would fall into the “hyper-sensitive” category too. It isn’t the so-called “politically correct” who are magnifying a “minor infraction” out of proportion in this case; it’s the thin-skinned types who moan about being oppressed by PC whenever they encounter even the mildest reminder that ethnic slurs are not considered appropriate in polite conversation. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/129 "2007-02-14T23:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] I agree that it is a derogatory term. But it’s not a _very_ derogatory term. [/quote] To you. > [@](#): > > If **Samclem** had just cringed a little and let it go, it would not have attracted much attention. And that’s all that would have happened. Not really. It would have been noted by other posters here. And, of course, ignorance would _not_ have been fought. I, personally, didn’t realize that _Brits_ 🙂 don’t seem to think of this as a serious slur. Ignorance fought. **Quartz** has learned that, in the U.S., it’s considered a major slur. Cecil, dead that he is, would be proud. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/130 "2007-02-14T23:27:34Z")
[QUOTE=Gary Kumquat] Out of interest, what label do you apply to Germans? [/QUOTE] Oh, who cares about them lousy Germs. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/131 "2007-02-15T00:39:01Z")
Is anyone else enjoying **DrDeth** trying to dig himself out of a hole? I know I am. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/132 "2007-02-15T00:58:18Z")
I’m not sure he’s aware that he’s in a hole to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/133 "2007-02-15T02:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] But still, the word has absolutely no emotional resonance for me. [/QUOTE] Communication: it isn’t all about _you_😉 . ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/134 "2007-02-15T02:57:03Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Is anyone else enjoying **DrDeth** trying to dig himself out of a hole? I know I am. [/QUOTE] I didn’t use the term. But I have no problem with anyone using it in it’s proper historical context. Going back and blacking out the word on the headline: “Japs bomb Pearl Harbor” is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/135 "2007-02-15T03:07:35Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] I didn’t use the term. But I have no problem with anyone using it in it’s proper historical context. Going back and blacking out the word on the headline: “Japs bomb Pearl Harbor” is silly. [/QUOTE] There’s quite a large difference between going back and blacking out the words then, and saying that it’s perfectly fine to use it now when referring to people in those times. Just like there’s quite a large differences between calling Nazis Nazis and calling Japanese people Japs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/136 "2007-02-15T03:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] There’s quite a large difference between going back and blacking out the words then, and saying that it’s perfectly fine to use it now when referring to people in those times. Just like there’s quite a large differences between calling Nazis Nazis and . [/QUOTE] Where do you get the idea that I am OK with “calling Japanese people Japs”? I am OK with using the term to refer to the Imperial Armed Forces only. It’s not “perfectly fine” either, it is a word that has historical context, and needs to be only used in that context. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/137 "2007-02-15T03:14:15Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] I didn’t use the term. But I have no problem with anyone using it in it’s proper historical context. Going back and blacking out the word on the headline: “Japs bomb Pearl Harbor” is silly. [/QUOTE] Well, thank God you were here to put a stop to that nonsense! While I’m at it, may I congratulate you on being such an excellent tiger deterent? In all the time I’ve been posting here, not once has anyone been ravaged by a tiger in any of the threads in which you’ve participated. Thank you for your bold service in protecting the SDMB from this stripey threat. Where would we be without you? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/138 "2007-02-15T03:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Where do you get the idea that I am OK with “calling Japanese people Japs”? I am OK with using the term to refer to the Imperial Armed Forces only. It’s not “perfectly fine” either, it is a word that has historical context, and needs to be only used in that context. [/QUOTE] And really doesn’t need to be used in that context either. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/139 "2007-02-15T03:15:29Z")
Did you mean to cut out the relevant part and leave everything else? But you’re right, i’m sorry. What I meant of course is that there’s a big difference between calling Nazis of the WWII era Nazis, and Japanese people of the WWII era Japs. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094/140 "2007-02-15T03:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Where do you get the idea that I am OK with “calling Japanese people Japs”? I am OK with using the term to refer to the Imperial Armed Forces only. It’s not “perfectly fine” either, it is a word that has historical context, and needs to be only used in that context. [/QUOTE] I’m not okay with it being used in that way. You know why? _Because that’s not what the fucking word means._[Here’s a headline for you.](http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/learning_history/japanese_internment/newspaper_articles.cfm) That newspaper isn’t talking about Japanese soldiers. It’s not even talking about Japanese _citizens_. It’s talking about Americans who have Japanese ancestry. And it’s calling them “Japs.” Because “Japs” is a derogatory term for anyone who is Japanese. Not just the army. Not just the generals. Not just the emperor. The entire fucking ethnicity. Because it’s an **ethnic slur.** Get it, you putz? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/samclem-come-on-down/392094.md?page=8)