# Same problems in Australia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 8, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246 "2014-01-08T04:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/81 "2014-01-08T21:53:35Z")
Perhaps the OP should start up a ‘www.freerepublic.au’ site for his posts? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/82 "2014-01-08T22:04:15Z")
I don’t know if it’s a coincidence, but I was just reading about Stephanie Banister, called “Australia’s Sarah Palin” by some. Apparently she said a lot of stupid stuff, but this is my favorite: > [@](#): > > When asked if she opposed the Jewish laws of kosher, Ms Banister incorrectly replied: ‘Jews aren’t under haram. They have their own religion which follows Jesus Christ.’ > **[Is this Australia's answer to Sarah Palin? Candidate believes Islam is a...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386786/Australian-candidate-Stephanie-Bannister-thinks-Islam-country-embarrassing-interview.html)** > > In an interview, Stephanie Banister, 27, referred to Islam as a country, and confused the word 'halal' with 'haram' - which has the opposite meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/83 "2014-01-08T22:15:19Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I’m confident to know that you’ll never get more than 0.01 percent of the vote or so, which is what you deserve. Optimistic. Restore Australia seems to be pretty much an alter ego of one Mike Holt who stood as a One Nation candidate in the last Qld election. He received 0.83% of the vote in his electorate. Mike Holt, by the way, wrote fiction in which the main protagonist was Foster Foskin. One Nation is/was infamous for racism and being anti-immigration but that particular infamy probably derives as much or more from headline grabbing nature of racism as from its centrality in One Nation/Restore Australia policy (if there is such a thing as centrality in their policies). One Nation is Australia’s version of the Tea Party. They have no coherent vision or policy suite. Rather, they are a grab bag of the disaffected. They don’t have any unified view as to what they want, they are just unhappy for a whole bunch of reasons and come together under a tent of the disgruntled. The draft constitution is a reflection of this. Sure, it’s amateurish, badly written, contradictory etc but it contains some ideas that make some sense. And many that are totally batshit and/or cater to the innumerable special interest cranks of which One Nation/Restore Australia comprise, which is why the document is so uneven and contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/84 "2014-01-08T22:18:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Not just allowed, but encouraged. I would suggest it be required. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/85 "2014-01-08T22:18:48Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > What’s to hate about Australia? It sits about 500 meters from the surface of the Sun, and everything alive out there is actively trying to kill you ? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/86 "2014-01-08T22:21:56Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I don’t know if it’s a coincidence, but I was just reading about Stephanie Banister, called “Australia’s Sarah Palin” by some. > > Apparently she said a lot of stupid stuff, but this is my favorite: > [Australian candidate Stephanie Bannister thinks Islam is a country in embarrassing interview | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386786/Australian-candidate-Stephanie-Bannister-thinks-Islam-country-embarrassing-interview.html) Banister was a flash in the pan who flamed out in a week or two after her minders were stupid enough to let her open her mouth. Her comments were sufficiently hilariously stupid for her to gain infamy and comparisons to Palin outside Australia. In fact, the better candidate for Australia’s Sarah Palin was or is Pauline Hanson, the nominal founder of One Nation. She actually got elected, and has been able to keep up the stream of stupid for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/87 "2014-01-08T23:20:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Missed it by _that_ much! 😛 taint a big deal — _hey, you, put your tongue back in your mouth_ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/88 "2014-01-08T23:26:02Z")
Skimmed over their draft constitution, got about this far: \ ***Right to property** 3.59. Except for land, water, minerals and other natural resources that remain part of the commonwealth, every citizen shall have a right to own property.\* Looks pretty iffy to me, like it could be interpreted to mean that people are not allowed to own land. What a bunch of brain sturgeons. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/89 "2014-01-08T23:46:35Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Skimmed over their draft constitution, got about this far: > \ ***Right to property** > > 3.59. Except for land, water, minerals and other natural resources that remain part of the commonwealth, every citizen shall have a right to own property.\* > > Looks pretty iffy to me, like it could be interpreted to mean that people are not allowed to own land. What a bunch of brain sturgeons. Yeah, but judges will be more interested in justice than in the letter of the law, so who knows how it would shake out in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/90 "2014-01-09T00:20:17Z")
That provision would be interpreted to mean that every citizen had a right to own property except for land, water etc specifically retained as part of the commonwealth. No way would it be interpreted to mean that people were not allowed to own land. The real problem with the clause is that it is meaningless garbage. What does it mean that “every citizen shall have a right to own property?” The key questions in relation to property are: who gets to own the property, and what does ownership entail. The clause does nothing to resolve either question. It’s not a constitutional clause, it’s a glib sentence from a stump speech aimed at those who feel left out: “_Everyone should have a right to own property!_” Cheers and wild applause. But no consideration of the hard questions that actually have to be dealt with by those who actually have to govern. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/91 "2014-01-09T00:47:00Z")
“Is that shirt your property?” Yes. “Congratulations, you own property. Now stfua.” ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/92 "2014-01-09T01:24:03Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > That provision would be interpreted to mean that every citizen had a right to own property except for land, water etc specifically retained as part of the commonwealth. No way would it be interpreted to mean that people were not allowed to own land. I don’t doubt that you’re right about the land, but it’s not so far fetched for water. In the western United States, water is never owned by private citizens - it’s allocated to them by the states. The water “rights” held by private citizens are yearly appropriations contingent upon availability and the specified use of the water. If those conditions are met, the allocation is typically uncontested. If they’re not, the water “right” reverts to the state. Water issues in most of Australia are very similar to those in the Western US, and their policies reflect this. I don’t know for sure, but I would be surprised if the water in Australia weren’t actually owned by either the states or the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/93 "2014-01-09T01:59:35Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > That provision would be interpreted to mean that every citizen had a right to own property except for land, water etc specifically retained as part of the commonwealth. No way would it be interpreted to mean that people were not allowed to own land. No, their draft constitution would abolish private ownership of land: > [@](#): > > 3.52. No new, freehold title to land shall be issued. > Similarly, from the date of this Constitution, no transfer > of freehold title to land shall be effected. The State shall > acquire all freehold title to land as properties are offered > for sale and shall offer back the land on lease to the new > prospective owner of the house, business, farm, etc. The intention is that private citizens just lease land from the government. I’ve been looking though their constitution, and it’s very radical. It would: - Abolish the monarchy. - Abolish the States. (Instead, there would be about 100 “Regional Assemblies”.) - Abolish the Senate. (There would be a unicameral parliament.) - Abolish the Westminster system. (The Executive would not be members of Parliament.) In particular, they want Parliament to decide what is to be done, and the Executive to implement the decisions. (It would be rather like the U.S. system, except that they don’t want the President to be politically partisan.) - Limit the role of political parties. (Even though they have a clause about “freedom of association”.) - Abolish the common law. (They just want courts to determine “facts”.) - Stagger elections to the Parliament and to the Regional Assemblies, rather than having general elections where all seats are being filled. - Elect the President through a three-stage process, starting with each regional assembly choosing a candidate, then having an election in groups of regional assemblies, and finishing with an Australia-wide election. - Have citizen-inititiated referenda on any political matter. - Require a 75% vote in favour of legislation in the Parliament. In other words, they want to change almost everything of any significance in the Australian political system. So there’s no chance of them having any success in having their ideas adopted. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/94 "2014-01-09T02:12:01Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > I don’t doubt that you’re right about the land, but it’s not so far fetched for water. In the western United States, water is never owned by private citizens - it’s allocated to them by the states. The water “rights” held by private citizens are yearly appropriations contingent upon availability and the specified use of the water. If those conditions are met, the allocation is typically uncontested. If they’re not, the water “right” reverts to the state. I was looking at the clause in question in isolation and as **Giles** has made clear, that was a dangerous thing to do. But no way in hell am I going to devote my time to reading the whole pile-o-garbage. I stand by my view that the clause to which I made reference would not, in isolation, mean one was not allowed to own land. As to water, the situation here is highly complicated and controversial but not entirely dissimilar to the position you describe applicable in the western United States. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/95 "2014-01-09T02:12:43Z")
Are only citizens allowed to own property now? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/96 "2014-01-09T02:38:23Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/97 "2014-01-09T02:45:50Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I don’t know if it’s a coincidence, but I was just reading about Stephanie Banister, called “Australia’s Sarah Palin” by some. > > Apparently she said a lot of stupid stuff, but this is my favorite: > [Australian candidate Stephanie Bannister thinks Islam is a country in embarrassing interview | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2386786/Australian-candidate-Stephanie-Bannister-thinks-Islam-country-embarrassing-interview.html) Holy shit – compared to her, Sarah Palin sounds like a fucking genius. ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/98 "2014-01-09T03:12:34Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > … and why do so many of these sages come from Queensland? > > Xenophobic, homophobic, anti-semantic agrarian socialist fruit bats. > > Crawl back under that nice flat rock from whence you came. I’ll see your Queenslanders and raise you five Texans… ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/99 "2014-01-09T03:39:34Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > What exactly do these people want to return to? The womb. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246/100 "2014-01-09T03:56:31Z")
> [@FosterFoskin](#): > > We want to bring in a whole new Constitution, one written by Aussies for Australia. For some reason, our friend FF made me think of this classic Shel Silverstein song. [QUOTE=Shel Silverstein] Was your grandma a whore, was your grandpa a thief Were they forgers and grafters who fell to their grief If you’re born of Australia, I know who ya be You’re the son of a son of a scoundrel like me. [/QUOTE] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-problems-in-australia/678246.md?page=6)