# Same-sex marriage is coming to Hawaii **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 12, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760 "2013-11-12T23:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/21 "2013-11-13T15:57:35Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I applaud your constant calls for restraint on the issue of rights and recognition involving a group you are not a part of. Truly, you’re an inspiration. You err. I am not calling for restraint – to the contrary, I favor same-sex marriage and I call on each and every state to enact it into law. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/22 "2013-11-13T16:32:32Z")
You imply that states like Iowa have somehow erred or subverted the role of government and also that same-sex marriage exists purely on the goodwill of the majority of straights and not because it is as legitimate a right as heterosexual marriage. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/23 "2013-11-13T16:35:17Z")
As to the final holdouts, my guesses: Texas Mississippi Alabama Utah ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/24 "2013-11-13T16:59:25Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You imply that states like Iowa have somehow erred or subverted the role of government and also that same-sex marriage exists purely on the goodwill of the majority of straights and not because it is as legitimate a right as heterosexual marriage. Not exactly, no. I say that there are a variety of reasons to prefer legislative enactment to judicial enactment of any substantive change to the law. It’s obvious that exercise of the judicial role does not ‘subvert’ government; it’s a part of government. But in our system, where sovereignty ultimately rests with the people, major changes should come from the people via their elected representatives. And ALL rights guaranteed by law exist as a result of the goodwill of the majority. That’s exactly what government “of the people” means. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/25 "2013-11-13T17:01:43Z")
I think Texas may end up surprising us. Not soon, but sooner than the others on that list. They aren’t all deep Bible Belt, the conservatism has a Libertarian slant, there are more big cities, and they have a lot of people who move in and out. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/26 "2013-11-13T17:41:52Z")
**Dangerosa** - Texas wan’t on my original list. (I remembered it as I was typing) ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/27 "2013-11-13T17:54:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And dare I note? > > Hawaii’s _ **legislature** _ passed the bill. Hawaii’s _ **governor** _ will sign it. > > That’s how a nation which professes belief in self-governance should enact substantive changes to the law. I applaud the duly-elected representatives of Hawaii for making the correct choice – but more importantly, I note that the voters of Hawaii are the ones whose will is expressed through their elected representatives. Should act as opposed to what? Judges doing it? The voters in a direct ballot initiative? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/28 "2013-11-13T18:02:50Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Should act as opposed to what? Judges doing it? The voters in a direct ballot initiative? As opposed to judges doing it. The voters in a direct ballot initiative are certainly a fine way of getting SSM, too. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/29 "2013-11-13T18:18:45Z")
I live in Massachusetts. Quite frankly, I doubt any of these legislative same-sex marriage wins would have happened if the SJC hadn’t ruled in favor in same-sex marriage in Massachusetts first. These things don’t happen completely independently. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/30 "2013-11-13T21:01:49Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I applaud your constant calls for restraint on the issue of rights and recognition involving a group you are not a part of. Truly, you’re an inspiration. Do you guys have to do this in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/31 "2013-11-13T21:05:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s how a nation which professes belief in self-governance should enact substantive changes to the law. I applaud the duly-elected representatives of Hawaii for making the correct choice – but more importantly, I note that the voters of Hawaii are the ones whose will is expressed through their elected representatives. And dare I detect a thinly disguised homage to Scalia? ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/32 "2013-11-13T21:13:05Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I wonder what that last state to authorize SSM marriage will be? I don’t think it will be “a” state. There’s going to be a point where there’s enough support in Congress to pass a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing same-sex marriage as a right, and 38 state legislatures to ratify it. I was a little surprised when Mexico allowed them - you would think that a strongly Catholic country like that would be against it. Then again, Pope Francis doesn’t exactly consider same-sex marriage an excommunicable offense the way abortion is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/33 "2013-11-13T21:17:40Z")
I’ll go with “all at once, when SCOTUS rules on a full-faith-and-credit case”. We’d be there already if Kennedy hadn’t shied away from declaring gays a suspect class. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/34 "2013-11-13T21:30:53Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I don’t think it will be “a” state. There’s going to be a point where there’s enough support in Congress to pass a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing same-sex marriage as a right, and 38 state legislatures to ratify it. They didn’t do that for interracial marriage. Why would they for SSM? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/35 "2013-11-13T22:12:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As opposed to judges doing it. The voters in a direct ballot initiative are certainly a fine way of getting SSM, too. Why is it “fine” if voters do it directly vs. judges? I’m assuming you don’t mean its fine legally since both are legal. Please define “fine”. Do you mean preferable? If so, then preferable to whom? Or do you mean something else? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/36 "2013-11-13T22:14:42Z")
Can a discussion about the preferability of one form of change versus another go in a different thread? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/37 "2013-11-13T22:59:37Z")
> [@ctnguy](#): > > [http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/23947349/breaking-senate-approves-same-sex-marriage-bill-heads-to-governor-for-signature:](http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/23947349/breaking-senate-approves-same-sex-marriage-bill-heads-to-governor-for-signature:) > This is particularly significant since Hawaii is the state which started the modern marriage equality movement in the US with _[Baehr v. Miike](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baehr_v._Miike)_, leading indirectly to the Defence of Marriage Act and a wave of state constitutional amendments. And ironically Hawai’i was the first state to pass one of those constitutional amendments, except instead of directly banning SSM like in other states it gave the legislature the power to ban SSM. Which is why HI doesn’t have to amend it’s constitution again. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/38 "2013-11-14T01:53:02Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I wonder what that last state to authorize SSM marriage will be? Depends on if Texas is still a State by the time the other 49 have SSM 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/39 "2013-11-14T01:59:33Z")
You know what. Two hundred years ago slavery sucked. But you know what would’ve sucked worse? Having some judge telling people in that state that slavery was illegal. That really would’ve sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760/40 "2013-11-14T04:58:16Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > You know what. Two hundred years ago slavery sucked. But you know what would’ve sucked worse? Having some judge telling people in that state that slavery was illegal. That really would’ve sucked. Well, except for the slaves of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/same-sex-marriage-is-coming-to-hawaii/673760.md?page=3)