# "Sampling" grapes: theft, uncouth, or perfectly legit? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 7, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521 "2014-04-07T01:53:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![maplekiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@maplekiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maplekiwi)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/101 "2014-04-08T22:09:44Z")
> [@grayhairedmomma](#): > > This is ridiculous, and I’ve raised two kids so I know more than you. If you teach your kids to eat during every shopping trip, then it becomes a problem. If you give in to tantrums, you are creating a problem. But if you occasionally let your hungry child eat something non messy and that can easily be scanned and paid for, while shopping, then you’re fine. But, that takes a parent who is willing to explain, repeatedly, why something might be okay one day and not another. Like saying, “No, we just had lunch, you don’t need a cookie.” or “Yes, it’s going to be awhile before dinner, you can eat a granola bar.” Since most people shop at least once a week, there are ample opportunities for these distinctions and lessons in self control to be taught. And no, we don’t sample grapes or other produce. > > (I used to try and pay for the item before eating, but it always seemed to make the store personnel more nervous because they’d worry that you would consume the product you paid for and use the receipt to get another item for free.) :rolleyes: So someone with 3 kids would know even more? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/102 "2014-04-08T23:20:32Z")
Okay, so the store has some cookies set out to sample. There is a sign that says “Take One.” If you take two is that theft? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/103 "2014-04-09T00:35:21Z")
> [@spinky](#): > > Bullshit. The store need not encourage it or have an explicit policy on it. If they consider it acceptable that people take samples in absence of explicit permission, it’s not theft. Just the opposite really. Stores don’t need to post signs saying “don’t take our shit” for it to be theft if you do. Can you take samples of the bread? Milk? Steak? Or is just ok because it is produce? So it must be ok to take a slice of watermelon or a bite out of an apple. Must be ok because there isn’t a sign prohibiting it. In absence of anything else to the contrary, taking items without paying for them is theft. By definition. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/104 "2014-04-09T02:00:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > \ > But of course the margins matter. This is why you can go to an art gallery and get free wine and cheese, because the sale of one or two paintings more than pays for it. If your margins are razor thin, the sacrifice of packaged food may be too much to absorb, especially if more than a certain number of people take advantage. \ That’s a critical point, too - one person taking one grape is not a big deal in any universe. 500 people taking a grape every day in every store turns into a big deal. > [@Loach](#): > > \ I personally have never been in a store in which sampling was encouraged.\ This is a little harder to define, because most grocery stores (in my experience) will freely give you a sample of produce if you ask for one (or if you’re just hanging around the produce department looking confused). Taking one for yourself is a different matter, though. They’ll cut up an apple and give you a slice if you ask; doing that yourself would not be cool. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/105 "2014-04-09T02:14:48Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s a critical point, too - one person taking one grape is not a big deal in any universe. 500 people taking a grape every day in every store turns into a big deal. I think 500 people a day is way over shooting it. More like a hundred. (if even that) So let’s do the math at $3 a pound. One grape = .5oz $3/32 =$0.09 $0.09 x 100 people= $9 $9 - 20% = $7.13 [We can assume at least 20% of the people sampling grapes will buy a bunch.] IMHO, the above numbers are skewed WAY in favor of the “It’s Stealing” crowd. I believe $7.13 to be rather low cost when you consider grocery stores have a 40% waste margin on average. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/106 "2014-04-09T02:16:45Z")
This is the funniest damn thread I’ve read in a while. Imagine the poor grocery store clerks who have to take time away from their important, busy tasks to deal with someone who asks to sample, or better yet _pay for!_, ONE grape. If that insanity happened routinely, they’d never get anything done that they’re bosses expect them to. Plus, I’d have to subscribe to [customerssuck.com](http://customerssuck.com). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/107 "2014-04-09T02:21:47Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Just the opposite really. Stores don’t need to post signs saying “don’t take our shit” for it to be theft if you do. Can you take samples of the bread? Milk? Steak? Or is just ok because it is produce? So it must be ok to take a slice of watermelon or a bite out of an apple. Must be ok because there isn’t a sign prohibiting it. In absence of anything else to the contrary, taking items without paying for them is theft. By definition. Does the bread and the milk vary in taste from day to day? Is it easy to sample without disrupting the integrity of the product? ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/108 "2014-04-09T02:27:30Z")
I regularly sample olives. Sometimes I sample one grape out of a bunch of loose ones. Here are my rules: 1. First, I’m serious about making the purchase. 2. If it’s olives, they are not a variety I have had before (no reason to have to keep re-tasting). For the olives, the place I go to has little cups & spoons so it’s clean. Also there is a garbage nearby for disposal. It’s obvious it is okay to sample. 3. If it’s grapes, first I do a sight check. If it passes that & looks promising, sometimes I sample one. My reason for sampling one is that I’m very picky with grapes. I like them firm & flavorful. If they’re not really really good, I’m not going to end up eating them and what a waste. I don’t sample anything I am not seriously considering buying, and I don’t take more than one bit. Also, because of my vague feeling that it is shady, I think I often over-buy the item! In other words, unless the item really is horrible, I’ll buy it because of sample guilt. Except for grapes. For grapes, no mercy. p.s. For anything else, loose candy, chocolate, cheese, etc. (like a gourmet cheese place), I ask for the sample. I limit myself to one or two cheeses and buy one. Or I ask whoever is on which is their current favorite & try that one. Good way to learn new foods 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/109 "2014-04-09T03:03:52Z")
What I find telling about the poll, the people who don’t take grapes tend to consider it stealing, the people who do take grapes tend to consider it ‘not stealing’ (for lack of a better term). It is evident that there are more people who don’t take grapes then that take grapes who voted here, but if you normalize the numbers by if they take the grapes or not it is a very different story. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/110 "2014-04-09T03:22:08Z")
Also, I never used to sample grapes. Then after I complained to my sister many times about getting bad grapes, she told me about the sample one grape practice. She used to work at an organic coop grocery store. ---
**Author:** ![keturah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e95f7d/32.png) [@keturah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keturah)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/111 "2014-04-09T03:39:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > What I find telling about the poll, the people who don’t take grapes tend to consider it stealing, the people who do take grapes tend to consider it ‘not stealing’ (for lack of a better term). > > It is evident that there are more people who don’t take grapes then that take grapes who voted here, but if you normalize the numbers by if they take the grapes or not it is a very different story. You can draw no such conclusion from this poll. As **Mean Old Lady** pointed out the poll is skewed based on possible answers. ie Do you regret beating your wife? Smartest people on the internet, right here. Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/112 "2014-04-09T04:14:16Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I think 500 people a day is way over shooting it. More like a hundred. (if even that) > > So let’s do the math at $3 a pound. > > One grape = .5oz > $3/32 =$0.09 > $0.09 x 100 people= $9 > $9 - 20% = $7.13 [We can assume at least 20% of the people sampling grapes will buy a bunch.] > > IMHO, the above numbers are skewed WAY in favor of the “It’s Stealing” crowd. I believe $7.13 to be rather low cost when you consider grocery stores have a 40% waste margin on average. Losing $7 a day per store per day on ONE item is worse that losing $0 per day per store on one item. If you don’t think the little bits add up, buy some Pop Tarts and see how much Tart you have with no icing on it these days - icing used to go edge to edge, but it sure doesn’t any longer. Just as one example out of many, of course - you shave a little off here, short a little there - it adds up. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/113 "2014-04-09T04:20:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Just the opposite really. Stores don’t need to post signs saying “don’t take our shit” for it to be theft if you do. Can you take samples of the bread? Milk? Steak? Or is just ok because it is produce? So it must be ok to take a slice of watermelon or a bite out of an apple. Must be ok because there isn’t a sign prohibiting it. In absence of anything else to the contrary, taking items without paying for them is theft. By definition. Pay attention. Nobody said it’s ok because there isn’t a sign prohibiting it. It’s ok **if the store is ok with it**. That’s all. That makes it **not theft**. ---
**Author:** ![butterfiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b3f665/32.png) [@butterfiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butterfiles)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/114 "2014-04-09T05:18:18Z")
Also it’s common sense. You can’t sample something that is sold by the unit (like a gallon of milk) or pre-packaged & weighed raw steak or a bite of an apple (then just eat the whole thing). But deli counters are happy to provide a small sample of deli meat or cheese upon request. That doesn’t mean lunch is on the grocer though 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/115 "2014-04-09T05:32:19Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Losing $7 a day per store per day on ONE item is worse that losing $0 per day per store on one item. If you don’t think the little bits add up, buy some Pop Tarts and see how much Tart you have with no icing on it these days - icing used to go edge to edge, but it sure doesn’t any longer. Just as one example out of many, of course - you shave a little off here, short a little there - it adds up. $0 waste in ANY business is an unrealistic goal. $7 a day is pretty damn good. Besides, my above math work is all guessing. It’s entirely possible “sampling” gives the store a net gain if enough people taste what they like and buy a bunch. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/116 "2014-04-09T05:36:30Z")
> [@butterfiles](#): > > Also it’s common sense. You can’t sample something that is sold by the unit (like a gallon of milk) You can’t? Damn, I thought it was okay to take a slug and put the milk jug back as long as you a)screw the cap on tightly and b)gargle with Listerine first. You just can’t trust those dates on milk. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/117 "2014-04-09T11:43:06Z")
It seems to me that most of the conflict in this thread is people talking past each other on what are really two separate issues: whether it’s _theft_, and whether it’s _wrong_. Just a few days ago, I walked up to a guy on the street, called him a motherfucker, and slugged him in the arm. That’s assault, no question about it — had he chosen to have me arrested and charged, the state would have me dead to rights. Instead, since he’s a close friend of mine who knew I was ribbing him for bailing on dinner the previous night, he didn’t mind that I did it (and in fact returned the sentiment), so all was well. None of that means I didn’t assault him, just that I didn’t do anything wrong, because he was okay with it. In the grape case, of course it’s theft. You’re walking into a place that sells food and eating something you didn’t pay for. The question at that point is whether that theft was wrong. As has been pointed out a dozen times in as many ways, it’s quite reasonable to conclude based on best evidence that the store doesn’t mind when people do this. And that’s the salient point — the argument that it’s theft and the argument that it’s okay to do are neither opposite positions nor mutually exclusive. Personally, I’d hold that both are correct. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/118 "2014-04-09T12:05:09Z")
Yeah, I think if it was really theft you’d be able to show where people have been arrested/prosecuted/convicted for sampling a grape. That you can’t, sort of speaks to it being acceptable in many places. I mean people get convicted of jwalking and illegal parking all the time. And don’t you think if they really cared they’d close up the bags? So as to deter a practice they disapprove of. I see, “Please, no sampling!”, signs at the bulk barn, where it could very clearly get out of hand, all the time. I’ve never sampled anything there. If the grocery so disapproved don’t you think there’d be a sign posted. Here in Canada, such a sign would, almost certainly achieve near complete compliance. So why isn’t there one? ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/119 "2014-04-09T12:28:22Z")
No, if it were theft _and stores cared about it_, you’d be able to find that example. The rest of your post is actually arguing my exact point — that you can’t point to a grape-sampling prosecution serves as evidence that stores in general don’t mind this. That they don’t take even the slightest, easiest, cheapest precautions to discourage the practice is even better evidence of the same thing. That’s exactly the reason I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. None of which is to say that taking something without paying for it isn’t theft. That’s what theft is. It’s just that theft — like assault in my earlier example — isn’t inherently wrong if a reasonable person can assume that the “victim” is okay with it. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521/120 "2014-04-09T12:41:57Z")
Sorry for the double-post, but I know this place well enough to know someone’s going to bring it up if I don’t… The last sentence of my post should say “taking something **that isn’t explicitly being offered to you** without paying for it” — before someone asks whether I’m calling [this](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DXoX9uylSQ0/TIUvEv77xmI/AAAAAAAAA-U/wgrIqLSicGA/s1600/IMAG0529.jpg) thievery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sampling-grapes-theft-uncouth-or-perfectly-legit/685521.md?page=7)