# San Diego Gay Men's Chorus prevented from singing at Padres game **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 25, 2016, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642 "2016-05-25T11:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/41 "2016-05-26T03:14:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Because of people like the OP, and you, who chose to see injury despite all efforts. Because of the lack of immediate correction, there WAS injury. The singers, at the time, had no idea what had happened, or why. They didn’t know whether it was an honest mistake or whether anyone would be fired for it. They were looking forward to singing, and had that opportunity snatched away from them. They understandably felt injured. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Why are they allowed to discriminate against straights? > > Do you think they would allow the San Diego, All Straight white Men’s Choir" to sing? > > No seriously. Kansas city has a gay mens choir also and its always struck me funny how they can brag about being all gay yet thats NOT discriminating? > > If they just said all men thats different. I am a member of a Gay Men’s Chorus. Nobody discriminates against anyone. In fact, we’ve had straight guys in the chorus, and there was absolutely no problem. A number of years ago we even debated the possibility of allowing women to join. The measure was narrowly defeated. If that’s discrimination, sue us. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/42 "2016-05-26T03:39:07Z")
So it was an Ashley Simpson? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/43 "2016-05-26T04:13:51Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I guess you missed ED’s ruling… > > _Do not change quotes of other posters or off-board citations beyond fair usage standards. If you delete material, use either ellipses or descriptive tags (e.g., \, [material deleted], etc.) to indicate you’ve done so. …_ Nothing **Peremensoe** did was against the rules. Ellipses are being considerate, but not required. Just as long as the quoter doesn’t change anything or add anything. In this case, he/she quoted exactly what you said. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/44 "2016-05-26T04:48:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I guess you missed ED’s ruling… > > _Do not change quotes of other posters or off-board citations beyond fair usage standards. If you delete material, use either ellipses or descriptive tags (e.g., \, [material deleted], etc.) to indicate you’ve done so. …_ To clarify, according to the Chicago Manual of Style, 16th Edition, section 13.50, ellipses are not used before the first word of a quote, or after the last word. So “normal editing rules” would not require ellipses. Ellipses are mainly used to indicate omissions within a quote. Since whole sentence was quoted, and the meaning was not changed, the quote was within the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/45 "2016-05-26T04:50:54Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What, you mean within 30 seconds? Or a minute? I mean, in time to salvage the planned event, of course. > [@Frank](#): > > Do you think the CEO of the Padres was in a position to dash to the booth and take over direct control of what music was playing? Then to dash to the announcer’s booth to apologize? Or should he have dashed to the announcer’s booth first, then to stop the music? Don’t be silly. All of this is literally, physically under the control of the game production team. I don’t know exactly how the Padres split up the work, but all of it was within the scope of somebody’s job. Yet they chose to do… nothing. Just let the wrong clip play out, without explanation? Shoddy work, at best. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/46 "2016-05-26T06:18:50Z")
Very shoddy work. An embarrassment. But not discrimination or with bad intent. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/47 "2016-05-26T16:46:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Very shoddy work. An embarrassment. But not discrimination or with bad intent. If they got a sound file or disc that was unlabeled, and if they didn’t listen to it first, yes, incredibly shoddy. In a big venue like this you got one job, and a lot of people hear you do it. There really is no excuse not to do it right. You need to have the file labeled properly, with a name and probably a date, and you should proof listen to it first, all the way through. That way you make sure it doesn’t have any copy errors, and that someone didn’t slip you a “funny” file. For these reasons alone, they should fire the guy. There’s probably a long line of folks who would like that job. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/48 "2016-05-26T16:51:54Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s what the Padres did. They fired a guy based on your rule of thumb. An innocent working stiff that made an honest mistake, owned it, and tried to set it straight with those who were offended. Knee jerk reactions usually make someone, or some group, look rather foolish, as do the Padres here. So put pressure on the Padres to hire him back. Apparently the gay men’s choir suggested the same thing. You’re not wrong entirely, it was a mistake, but with the pervasive homophobia inherent in a lot of people, it was not a dishonest assumption to make ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/49 "2016-05-26T19:55:41Z")
I don’t get the outrage. Is nothing ever allowed to go wrong? We’re talking about singing a song before an entertainment event, for cripes sake! If there was any evidence that it was due to prejudice than fine, fire him, but otherwise it’s people making a big show of playing the victim card. I just can’t imagine being so thin-skinned that I would still be upset after accepting an apology. Plus it makes it harder to deal with real cases of prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/50 "2016-05-27T00:24:59Z")
Facebook is full of people who for some reason really really want this to be about prejudice. I don’t understand why. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/51 "2016-05-27T14:33:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Lehman is also fighting to get the young man responsible for the technical mishap re-hired. Art Romero (DJ Artform) was at the helm of the sound station and uploaded the wrong file, he panicked and reached for another CD which said “anthem,” the one with the woman’s voice which he played and did not stop. Romero apologized publically, “It was a very unfortunate mistake but it was just that, an error. In no way, shape or form directed any type of hate, bad intent or discrimination towards the chorus or anyone involved.” From [here](http://sdgln.com/news/2016/05/24/san-diego-gay-men-s-chorus-bob-lehman-talks-sdgln-about-our-initial-article-padres-sdgmc), an effort to dissect the errors in the initial reporting. The tone of that article is generally unapologetic for getting some key facts wrong in the initial reporting, but does a pretty good job of explaining the initial assumptions – for example, there was apparently an attempt ahead of time to ask the Chorus to pay for tickets to the game. But in general, I think the intersection of gay men and professional sports created a certain wariness on the gay men side, and the audio system mistake looked very much like a deliberate slap in the face. A bit of time and a cooler look at things has produced as much of a retraction as I think is reasonable, and it’s produced a venue for the Padres to reach out to the LGBT community, so on balance, I think more good than ill comes from the initial misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/52 "2016-05-27T15:10:05Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t get the outrage. Is nothing ever allowed to go wrong? We’re talking about singing a song before an entertainment event, for cripes sake! If there was any evidence that it was due to prejudice than fine, fire him, but otherwise it’s people making a big show of playing the victim card. I just can’t imagine being so thin-skinned that I would still be upset after accepting an apology. > > Plus it makes it harder to deal with real cases of prejudice. Things can go wrong, that’s why the chorus wants him to be hired back. But you not understanding the outrage is puzzling. Have you no idea of the recent history of gay discrimination? You cannot say “this has nothing to do with gays” when in many places, they are still a reviled minority. Discrimination still happens, and always assuming it isn’t discrimination leads to many people able to turn a blind eye to the harm being inflicted upon them. I’d rather err on the side of discrimination to ensure that everyone knows that bigotry will not be tolerated. If there’s a mistake, apologies will be made and we’ll move on. But its better than letter actual discrimination fester for a long time because you don’t have iron-clad evidence. Bigotry is in people’s hearts, its very difficult to find overt proof of it. There’s always some explanation. That excuse needs to stop ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/53 "2016-05-27T18:26:28Z")
OTOH, crying “discrimination!” where there is none will, over time, be just as damaging to the cause - the boy who cried wolf syndrome. People eventually start ignoring the cry altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/54 "2016-05-27T18:43:18Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Have you no idea of the recent history of gay discrimination? You cannot say “this has nothing to do with gays” when in many places, they are still a reviled minority. Assuming without evidence that the mistake was due to discrimination is dumb and wrong; the guy lost his job over it (although he might get it back). You don’t see a problem with that? There was plenty of circumstantial evidence that it was a simple mistake: other gay groups had been invited without mishap, including (I believe) the singing group in question. Playing the victim card and exhibiting outrage at every incidence that _might_ be discrimination is not going to help end discrimination. People should get the facts, hear both sides, and only then raise umbrage if required. Jumping to conclusions is almost never right. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/55 "2016-05-27T18:44:39Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > OTOH, crying “discrimination!” where there is none will, over time, be just as damaging to the cause - the boy who cried wolf syndrome. People eventually start ignoring the cry altogether. Additionally, people will jump to the conclusion that real discrimination was fake. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/56 "2016-05-27T19:35:29Z")
This was the culmination of a series of problems in this event. The team had tried to force the members of the chorus to pay for tickets to the game, something that was not required by other national anthem performers. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/57 "2016-05-27T20:39:09Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Assuming without evidence that the mistake was due to discrimination is dumb and wrong; the guy lost his job over it (although he might get it back). You don’t see a problem with that? Who said he _was_ fired for assumed discrimination? The Padres’ official statement was that the termination of the contractor, and “discipline” of the in-house employee, _followed_ the conclusion that there was “no evidence of malicious intent on the part of any individuals involved.” In any event, canning _the guy who fucked up,_ who caused the team this problem, is not unreasonable. Even if everyone had been sure all along that no anti-gay malice was intended. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/58 "2016-05-27T21:04:19Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > OTOH, crying “discrimination!” where there is none will, over time, be just as damaging to the cause - the boy who cried wolf syndrome. People eventually start ignoring the cry altogether. Except we have lots of anti-discrimination laws so crying “discrimination” doesn’t seem to have the effect you’re worried about. OTOH, when conservatives like to bully a certain group and cry “we’re the victims why can’t we bully” probably does have the effect you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/59 "2016-05-27T21:19:08Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > This was the culmination of a series of problems in this event. The team had tried to force the members of the chorus to pay for tickets to the game, something that was not required by other national anthem performers. Do we know this is a fact? I know that the Padres asked the chorus members to buy tickets, but do we know that they only asked the gay chorus to buy tickets and not anyone else singing on other days? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2016, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642/60 "2016-05-27T23:16:31Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Who said he _was_ fired for assumed discrimination? > > The Padres’ official statement was that the termination of the contractor, and “discipline” of the in-house employee, _followed_ the conclusion that there was “no evidence of malicious intent on the part of any individuals involved.” > > In any event, canning _the guy who fucked up,_ who caused the team this problem, is not unreasonable. Even if everyone had been sure all along that no anti-gay malice was intended. Since the chorus has asked for his reinstatement they appear to think he was fired for bogus reasons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-diego-gay-mens-chorus-prevented-from-singing-at-padres-game/755642.md?page=4)