San Diego Gay Men's Chorus prevented from singing at Padres game

[Velocity]

OK, let’s make this super-simple:

Yes or no, was it intentional?

If it were unintentional, should the employee be fired, yes or no?

[YogSothoth]

Are you asking me? Because I’d answer that he shouldn’t be fired if it was unintentional, unless they are so uptight about their games going off perfectly that they’d fire someone for an innocent mistake.

But there’s another question, did the team act too quickly and should they have waited? Well, given the info at the time, if they were certain above a reasonable degree, you can say that they didn’t need to wait, they thought they had all the information at the time and acted accordingly.

[silenus]

IMO, the backlash the Padres would have gotten if they hadn’t immediately fired the DJ would have been far greater than what they experienced thus far. Better to take immediate steps that can be remediated later than look like you don’t care about Gay Rights. That’s death to a company/team/organization in California. The Padres could never have regained any semblace of credibility with the community had they not acted at once and massively.

Now that things have calmed down a bit, they can make amends, rehire the DJ and move forward, this only being a bump, not a catastrophe.

[Peremensoe]

@Velocity

OK, let’s make this super-simple:

Yes or no, was it intentional?

If it were unintentional, should the employee be fired, yes or no?

1. Unsure, but in the absence of more conclusive evidence it’s best to give the benefit of doubt.

2. Yes. At best, it was still significant errors in both competence (to trigger an unchecked recording) and judgement (to make no efforts to stop it, to salvage the situation, or to acknowledge or apologize within the stadium that day). I would have fired the game-production staffer with oversight of the sound contractor, as well, rather than “disciplined” him as reported; at least the last part of the judgement errors was his.

[Doctor_Jackson]

@YogSothoth

You’re wrong, this isn’t a case in the legal system. I was using a discrimination suit as an example of how difficult it is to get concrete evidence of bigotry.

You used the lawsuit metaphor, I just called you on it.

@YogSothoth

Put it this way: would you be upset if the team simply fired the guy for screwing up the sound?

I’m not upset now. But firing a sound guy who played the wrong music one time would be a bit unusual, IME.

@YogSothoth

Again, your standards for bigotry is too high. There will almost never be evidence of bigotry. Do you think that means bigotry doesn’t exist?

Again, you put words in my mouth. I’m not setting standards, I’m merely saying that people waaayyyy overreacted in this case, and some won’t admit even now that their initial reaction was wrong. That’s what bugs me.

@YogSothoth

The reason why the team acted is because it initially seemed like a pretty obvious case.

No, the team reacted that way because people were screaming. It was a knee-jerk reaction and handled poorly.

@YogSothoth

That later evidence showed that it may not have been makes the team look bad for jumping to conclusions, and that’s something they have to weigh against acting quickly.

My point exactly, but if others involved had not immediately gone screaming “Discrimination!” to the press, cooler heads would have likely prevailed. The DJ may still have been fired, but he would not have been fired AND labeled a bigot.

@YogSothoth

It would be nice if everyone acted quickly and correctly the first time; that’s not going to happen.

And I think it can, and in most cases does. And when it doesn’t it needs to be set right.

@YogSothoth

I happen to think homophobia is a big enough issue for organizations to come out strongly and decisively against it earlier rather than later.

Agreed. When it happens.

@YogSothoth

Let’s say they waited though, and this was actually due to bigotry. At what point do you think they should have acted?

Once the evidence was in.

@YogSothoth

Given that there’s likely no video of the guy spouting bigoted statements, do you just not fire him?

Fire someone because I think they might possibly be bigoted? It would certainly narrow the work force.

@YogSothoth

When do you feel its ok for a company to act when no smoking gun exists?

Evidence is not limited to a smoking gun. But evidence should be required before firing anyone for cause.

@YogSothoth

First, its not recreational rage, its real rage, actual people have been hurt by bigotry and actual people are pissed off by it.

But there was none here. None. Zero. The history of the team’s hosting these events annually should have at least led to a more reasoned response from all involved.

@YogSothoth

Second, that the whole story didn’t emerge until later is a different subject altogether from the anger.

One can not generally control getting angry, but one can always control their actions. Anger alone never justifies action.

@YogSothoth

Lastly, I like this world. I like how the internet and social media allows people to play a larger role in mustering up anger towards an injustice that in times past, would have been solely controlled by newspapers and TV networks. I take the good with the bad, sometimes the rage will be unfocused, or ill-directed. I still like this way better than the past

You know what? I like you. I don’t doubt that you are passionate about what you believe in, and that is a good thing - to a point. All I am saying is that no matter what cause one is fighting for, acting in anger WILL lead to collateral damage and that collateral damage WILL hurt the cause. It’s much easier to give in to the anger and lash out, but in the long run very counterproductive. MLK understood that well.

[Sir_T-Cups]

@levdrakon

It’s really not. Is “DJ at Padres games” even a regular job? It’s like firing your tiler for tiling your front window shut.

Just because it’s not a full-time 40+ hour a week job that changes the world doesn’t make it any LESS of a job.

And I think your tiler analogy is a bit off since tiling the front door takes time, effort and a whole lotta ignorance that you’re doing something wrong.

This guy literally double-clicked on the wrong file.

I would liken it to someone in your office accidentally sending the wrong attachment in an email and then being fired for it

[Peremensoe]

@Sir_T-Cups

Just because it’s not a full-time 40+ hour a week job that changes the world doesn’t make it any LESS of a job.

So it should be taken seriously, and competence expected?

@Sir_T-Cups

I would liken it to someone in your office accidentally sending the wrong attachment in an email and then being fired for it

Sending an apparently bigoted attachment to about a hundred thousand people, yeah (ballpark and local viewership, not counting streaming). Bringing the company under fire in national media. Damn right I’d fire that guy.

[Deeg]

@Peremensoe

So it should be taken seriously, and competence expected?

Sending an apparently bigoted attachment to about a hundred thousand people, yeah (ballpark and local viewership, not counting streaming). Bringing the company under fire in national media. Damn right I’d fire that guy.

It was never a bigoted attachment; people just saw that it was the wrong file and decided it must be bigoted.

[Peremensoe]

“Apparently.”

Yes, that’s why greater care should have been taken.

[levdrakon]

@Sir_T-Cups

I would liken it to someone in your office accidentally sending the wrong attachment in an email and then being fired for it

It would be like someone being hired to send one email, and frakking it up. In front of a Padres crowd. And a chorus was made to look stupid and endure jeers from the crowd. He had one job. A very simple job.

[JRDelirious]

@YogSothoth

Second, that the whole story didn’t emerge until later is a different subject altogether from the anger. Lastly, I like this world. I like how the internet and social media allows people to play a larger role in mustering up anger towards an injustice that in times past, would have been solely controlled by newspapers and TV networks. I take the good with the bad, sometimes the rage will be unfocused, or ill-directed. I still like this way better than the past

(emphasis added)

@silenus

IMO, the backlash the Padres would have gotten if they hadn’t immediately fired the DJ would have been far greater than what they experienced thus far. Better to take immediate steps that can be remediated later than look like you don’t care about Gay Rights. That’s death to a company/team/organization in California. The Padres could never have regained any semblace of credibility with the community had they not acted at once and massively.

Now that things have calmed down a bit, they can make amends, rehire the DJ and move forward, this only being a bump, not a catastrophe.

True: Put out the fire first before there’s permanent major damage, then figure out the actual problem later. After the waters have reached their level someone can commiserate with the DJ as to “damn, you screw up one job, it had to be the one that made everyone hate your guts? Couldn’t be just playing the Pistols’ God Save The Queen instead of the official one with HM in the hall, could it?”. Because yeah, that sort of screwup is the sort that can’t be just resoved with “oops”, it has to come off someone’s hide. Like they said, You Had One Job…

I like very much that things don’t get as easily papered over any more, yet I must admit I can’t make myself all that sanguine about social media/online “shame culture” or Zero Tolerance or various versions of torches-and-pitchforks uprisings, due to the matter of “unfocused and ill-directed” episodes. Because anger is real, and needs to hit back without holding back, but if you hit back in “unfocused and ill-directed” manner, you (a) may not hurt the opressor powerfully enough and he may find it easier to deflect, (b) risk catching unwitting bystanders with the shrapnel, and (c) may end up becoming spent too early in the battle.

[Sir_T-Cups]

@Peremensoe

So it should be taken seriously, and competence expected?

@levdrakon

It would be like someone being hired to send one email, and frakking it up. In front of a Padres crowd. And a chorus was made to look stupid and endure jeers from the crowd. He had one job. A very simple job.

Yes it should absolutely be taken seriously and competence should be expected, and competence is what he surely showed the (and I’m assuming here) hundreds of other games he likely DJd at the stadium. I can’t find a cite for this, but I imagine that day wasn’t this guys first day on the job. He’s probably played thousands of musical cues (between anthems, player walk-up music, mascot fun music etc.) in his time there and because he double-clicked on the wrong file once he’s out?

That is still demanding a level of perfection that is unheard of outside of truly life-saving/ending procedures.

I do fully understand that it caused embarrassment and made national headlines, and you could maybe even talk me into believing that initially firing him was semi-appropriate, but now that the facts have come out there is no reason for him to not have his job anymore.

[Velocity]

In the wake of this incident, I got the strong impression on social media that some people fervently *wanted *this to be an incident of intentional discrimination and bigotry, and that they, in fact, would have been quite disappointed had it turned out to be an innocent mistake.

[Shodan]

@Doctor_Jackson

… accusations could have waited until the facts were in.

Oh, you’re no fun.

Regards,
Shodan

[hajario]

@Velocity

In the wake of this incident, I got the strong impression on social media that some people fervently *wanted *this to be an incident of intentional discrimination and bigotry, and that they, in fact, would have been quite disappointed had it turned out to be an innocent mistake.

Absolutely. I made the same observation in Post 50. Even the most uncharitable view of what occurred doesn’t rise to the level of the thread title of this moronic OP because they did end up singing.

[JRDelirious]

@Sir_T-Cups

He’s probably played thousands of musical cues (between anthems, player walk-up music, mascot fun music etc.) in his time there and because he double-clicked on the wrong file once he’s out?
…

I do fully understand that it caused embarrassment and made national headlines, and you could maybe even talk me into believing that initially firing him was semi-appropriate, but now that the facts have come out there is no reason for him to not have his job anymore.

This is why you make sure you cue up the right track (by actually listening on your headset) in advance, and have it ready to go, open but paused on the top/front window.

(And at the least you want to make sure that at worst you’ll flip God Bless America for America the Beautiful, rather than America F*** Yeah.)

But you say it yourself: it is valid that the magnitude of the effects of the screwup be taken into account when judging the type of discipline to be applied initially. But it is also valid that further findings of fact be taken into account to temper and modify those actions

[Peremensoe]

@hajario

…they did end up singing.

What? No. They stood, confused, as somebody else’s recording played, and then they were led off the field.

[hajario]

@Peremensoe

What? No. They stood, confused, as somebody else’s recording played, and then they were led off the field.

You’re correct. They were invited back to sing at a later date.

[Peremensoe]

@hajario

You’re correct. They were invited back to sing at a later date.

OK, well, the thread title was about a singular game. I call it accurate.

[Sir_T-Cups]

@JRDelirious

But you say it yourself: it is valid that the magnitude of the effects of the screwup be taken into account when judging the type of discipline to be applied initially. But it is also valid that further findings of fact be taken into account to temper and modify those actions

Which is why the Padres should rehire him