# San Fran might rename 44 schools **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110 "2020-12-15T17:05:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/21 "2020-12-15T19:59:44Z")
No, [they just don’t have any kids](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/san-francisco-children.html). Like me, once your kid hits kindergarten, you move out of the city. I’m sure this story will be big news and have fervent arguments, but to people who live there and are affected by the school system, this is a fairly tertiary (at best) concern. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/22 "2020-12-15T21:15:38Z")
Declaring Washington and Lincoln to be persona non grata is tantamount to saying “US out of North America.” If they are irredeemable – not just flawed but _irredeemable_ – then so is the Republic. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/23 "2020-12-15T21:18:14Z")
But I thought slippery slope was just a fallacy! Reality has demonstrated that the slippery slope actually isn’t and that when one capitulates to the nutty the nutty keep getting nuttier. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/24 "2020-12-15T21:19:57Z")
That’s a city in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/25 "2020-12-15T21:27:30Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Declaring Washington and Lincoln to be persona non grata is tantamount to saying “US out of North America.” > > If they are irredeemable – not just flawed but _irredeemable_ – then so is the Republic. If a country that ran itself exactly like the US did circa 1785, do you think they’d be considered a particularly advanced, enlightened, or free society? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/26 "2020-12-15T21:35:33Z")
By the standards of 1785? Absolutely so. By today’s standards in lunatic circles? No. But nor would any other place on Earth be considered advanced or enlightened. Hell, even numbers are probably triggering to someone somewhere who can find some negative association with a particular number. Look, the purpose of tearing down statues, removing names and other forms of historic cancel culture is not to make things nicer. It’s to set the philosophical foundation that anything derived from flawed individual is flawed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/27 "2020-12-15T21:37:27Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Hell, even numbers are probably triggering to someone somewhere who can find some negative association with a particular number. What? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/28 "2020-12-15T21:38:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > By today’s standards in lunatic circles? No What about by YOUR standards? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/29 "2020-12-15T21:45:00Z")
I see nothing wrong with naming schools after former presidents or other notable historical figures. Even ones that weren’t saintly. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/30 "2020-12-15T21:54:32Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If a country that ran itself exactly like the US did circa 1785, do you think they’d be considered a particularly advanced, enlightened, or free society? The Founding Fathers came out of a society that enslaved Africans and committed genocide against Native Americans. But they developed and handed down the tools to turn the United States into a force for human liberation. If the republic they founded was illegitimate, then what should it be replaced with? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/31 "2020-12-15T22:03:10Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > No, [they just don’t have any kids](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/us/san-francisco-children.html). Like me, once your kid hits kindergarten, you move out of the city. I’m sure this story will be big news and have fervent arguments, but to people who live there and are affected by the school system, this is a fairly tertiary (at best) concern. Hell yeah, you move. Kindergarten kids cannot afford San Francisco rent! ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/32 "2020-12-15T22:15:31Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > But I thought slippery slope was just a fallacy! Reality has demonstrated that the slippery slope actually isn’t and that when one capitulates to the nutty the nutty keep getting nuttier. At this rate, give it a hundred years and they’ll probably be scrapping MLK day because he wasn’t a critical race theorist. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/33 "2020-12-15T22:36:11Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > The Founding Fathers came out of a society that enslaved Africans and committed genocide against Native Americans. True. > [@](#): > > But they developed and handed down the tools to turn the United States into a force for human liberation. That’s a bit optimistic, but yeah, overall the US has been better than most. > [@](#): > > If the republic they founded was illegitimate, then what should it be replaced with? I don’t think the republic they founded was illegitimate. I just don’t believe that they are the end all be all to running a society. We can recognize their historical importance without idolizing them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/34 "2020-12-15T23:00:04Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > The Founding Fathers came out of a society that enslaved Africans and committed genocide against Native Americans. The early American Colonists didnt do much in the way of "genocide’ and the definition of genocide being “the deliberate and systematic destruction” would count out the reduction in the natives, since it was hardly either. 90% of the natives died before the colonies were even started by waves of totally unplanned plagues. And yes, there was indeed slavery, but slavery was world wide. The British of course played a very prominent role in the early African slave trade which wasnt abolished until 1807 and continued pretty well unchecked until 1823. The USA banned the importation of slaves also in 1807. Slavery continued in the British colonies until 1834. So the _Founding Fathers_ were no more and no less into slavery than the Brits- or pretty much all of Europe- were at that time. It wasnt until a few decades before the Civil War that America fell behind the rest of the Civilized world. So, let’s get out of this idea that Washington etc were some sort of evil people as they were slave owners. It was common, legal and everyday back then. The great greek Philosophers were in a slave owning society also. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/35 "2020-12-15T23:02:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So the _Founding Fathers_ were no more and no less into slavery than the Brits- or pretty much all of Europe- were at that time. It wasnt until a few decades before the Civil War that America fell behind the rest of the Civilized world. > > So, let’s get out of this idea that Washington etc were some sort of evil people as they were slave owners. It was common, legal and everyday back then. The great greek Philosophers were in a slave owning society also. Why do you have such a hard time with the idea that we shouldn’t be idolizing ANY of those people? Eta: I wouldn’t recommend idolizing anyone who is currently alive either. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/36 "2020-12-15T23:02:45Z")
The OP here is a perfect example of true “politcal correctness gone amuck or overboard”. Let us not judge people by the ethics of today, after all, we will all be judged harshly by the people of 2200: (you kept Chimps in _zoos_? And they didnt have the right to vote?, You made dolphins do tricks to get fed?!?) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/37 "2020-12-15T23:04:59Z")
So what you are saying is that anyone pre say, 1960 was irredeemable evil, and should not be honored? Even later that that, how late was it that we legalized gay sex? Gay marriage? Judge people by how great they were in their own day and age. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Palmerston, Socrates, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/38 "2020-12-15T23:06:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So what you are saying is that anyone pre say, 1960 was irredeemable evil, and should not be honored? Nope, not at all. You might be able to formulate a more coherent response if you read my posts first 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/39 "2020-12-15T23:08:56Z")
_Eta: I wouldn’t recommend idolizing anyone who is currently alive either._?? There are no great men or women? No artists, writers, Physicians, Military? Not medal of Honor winners, not Dr Fauci? No one? Bah. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110/40 "2020-12-15T23:15:18Z")
Nope, none of those people should be idolized. They should be honored for their achievements where appropriate, and criticized for their failures. But nobody should be idolized or worshipped, their word accepted as gospel truth and their authority unquestioned. Absolutely nobody. Ghandi, MLK, Obama, Fauci, Einstein. None were gods. All were men. All accomplished much and deserve credit for it, but all also have their failings. It is important that we never let anyone be above reproach. ETA: Someone like Fauci especially would understand the importance of not idolizing people. If you idolized Newton and his mastery of physics, you don’t question it and come up with general relativity. If you idolized Einstein, you don’t dig into the edge cases where GR seems to fail and look for a new model that can explain those edge cases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-fran-might-rename-44-schools/928110.md?page=3)