# San Francisco- Fuck Off! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2001, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404 "2001-03-01T17:46:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/1 "2001-03-01T17:46:23Z")
San Francisco- If you would stop patting yourself on the back long enough to pull your head out of your ass, you might discover that you are not the center of the universe! I live in Santa Cruz, a small liberal beach community about an hour and a half away from that almighty center of the universe, San Francisco. As you might know from my previous post, [San Francisco’s Ego](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=10675), I have been forced by my signifigant other to subscribe to the San Francisco Chronicle. The Chronicle, for you lucky non Bay-Area people out there, seems to exist solely as a propaganda piece declaring San Francisco’s Refined Liberal Holy Superiority above all other cities. Today I woke up and read a front-page story on how the state is thinking of moving some jobs out of Too-Expensive-To-Live-In San Francisco into the state’s capitol city, Sacramento. The article began like this (keep in mind this is the front page, not op-ed): > [@](#): > > "State bean counters stuck in Sacramento, where the temperature reaches over 100 in the summer and monster truck rallies quickly sell out, are trying to pull hundreds of state employees out of refined and expensive San Francisco. > > It’s the new proposed state policy: Everyone must suffer." I grew up in Sacramento. It is hardly the dreaded backwater of California. Yes, there are monster truck rallies. There is also ballet, theater, a liberal weekly newspaper, fine art, a better music scene than I’ve witnessed in the Bay Area, and just about anything someone could want from a city. Sacramento is also a beautiful city, with more trees than any other city in the world besides Paris (well, that is actually a tie). And yes, Sacramento is affordable. You can buy a Victorian in one of Sacramento’s quaint tree lined downtown neighborhoods for what it costs to live in someone’s back yard storage shed in the Bay Area. Is San Francisco so insecure about their over-priced, windblown, earthquake prone, loft building, artist evicting city that they have to sit around maligning other people? For ridiculing my home town in order to boost it’s ego (which actually manages to be more inflated than it’s housing costs) I have this to offer- San Francisco, Fuck Off! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/2 "2001-03-01T18:18:41Z")
Now, now - Sacramento **is** too hot 😃 . For me anyway - anything the other side of the Caldecott tunnel ( Orinda and East ) is too warm as far as I’m concerned. I’d take Santa Cruz over Sacramento without even pausing too blink 😉 . Otherwise you have a point. It was a slightly sneary and superior article. Just remember all the really cool people live in the **East Bay** 😛 . Oh and I do disagree with one other thing. Objectively the Chronicle might be liberal. But by Bay Area standards it is positively moderate. Conservative even, at times. Now the Bay Guardian - that’s liberal 😉 . - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/3 "2001-03-01T21:45:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > **…There is also ballet, theater, a liberal weekly newspaper, fine art, a better music scene than I’ve witnessed in the Bay Area, and just about anything someone could want from a city…** I’ll go with you on the tree lined streets. Fortunately, Sackatomatoes remained a backwater booney throughout the redevelopment of the seventies and eighties, and no one got around to chopping them all down (thank goodness!). As to the music scene, give me a break! You have the Arco Arena and the State Fair grounds. Having just seen Jeff Beck in a beautiful _Grand Dame_ theater house in San Francisco, I’ve must take issue with you. SF has one of the most vital music scenes on the entire west coact. The number and variety of venues is almost unlimited. The quantity and quality of bands to come out of SF is light years ahead of Sacramento and most, if not all, other Pacific coast towns. Let’s see, Jefferson Airplane/Starship, Quicksilver Messenger Service, The Charlatans, Country Joe and the Fish, It’s A Beautiful Day, Joe Satriani, Metallica, Roy Rogers, Buffalo Norton, the list is frickin’ endless. Feel free to name even a handful of Sacramento bands that have gone world class. San Francisco may have a bit of a superiority complex, but it is pretty well deserved. As a tolerant and accultured community it (for some obscure reason) continually ranks as one of _the_ top travel destinations in the entire WORLD. Year after year, it is in the top ten. Go figure, I guess it has something to do with hundreds (if not thousands) of fine restaurants, superb architecture, fabulous musuems, a superb symphony and ballet plus more other events than you can shake a stick at. As to the Chronicle, it is but a shadow of its former glory. With the death of Terrance Flahtery (sp?) the last of the horseman are gone. After Herb Caen’s death it was all downhill. Those two along with Stanton Delaplane, Charles McCabe and Art Hoppe all distinguished the Chronicle as a bastion of d@mn fine writing for decades. So show some respect for the dead will you? Sheesh. When Sacramento (where Herb Caen moved from) gets into the Major Leagues please let me know. I have been there hundreds of times. I love Enotria (fine nouvelle Italian restaurant) and the strip down near the Capitol building is getting pretty lively, but there’s still an awful lot of “there’s no there, there” to Sakamena. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/4 "2001-03-01T23:44:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > Is San Francisco so insecure about their over-priced, windblown, earthquake prone, loft building, artist evicting city that they have to sit around maligning other people? For ridiculing my home town in order to boost it’s ego (which actually manages to be more inflated than it’s housing costs) I have this to offer- San Francisco, Fuck Off! Actually, there is no such thing as over-priced in real-estate. The fact that San Francisco is higher priced than Sacramento is a point in favor of San Francisco. The higher price means more people want to live there. Supply and demand. Similarly, I’ve yet to fully understand what is so horrible about building lofts. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/5 "2001-03-02T01:16:33Z")
The internet revolution sapped all the life and love out of San Francisco by raising rents and filling the City chock full to the gills with snot-nosed yuppie scumfuckwad assholes. The last time I went there I was generally shocked and appalled at what had become of the place. It used to be wonderful; now, it is not so wonderful. (I lived there for many, many years; grew up there in fact. I moved away in the summer of 1994.) That having been said, I should think that Santa Cruz is one of the _very first_ places that needs to take its self-righteous, hippier-than-thou attitude down a few notches. (At least, that’s how it used to be.) As far as Sacramento goes, it’s a fun party town if you know the right people. But it’s bitchin’ hot in the summertime and if your desire is to live in a suburban strip-mall-laden town with a handful of moderately good things about it, you might as well move just about anywhere else in America. ---
**Author:** ![squib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@squib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squib)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/6 "2001-03-02T02:04:54Z")
I grew up in Sacramento and swore up and down I’d never stay. Then I lived in San Francisco for three years and loved it but started to appreciate Sac’s positives. I now live in Sacramento. It’s not a competition. The worst things Sacramento has done have been out of a misplaced sense of looking down on itself , or being self-conscious of others’ views of it, as a cow town. It should just shoot for being the bitchinest Sacramento, cow town or no. Oh, and it is hella fucking HOT. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/7 "2001-03-02T03:40:10Z")
Hey, I never said Sacramento was better than San Francisco, I simply think that moving to Sacramento is hardly a Fate Worse Than Death, as it was portrayed in the Chronicle. I never came here to be the Sacramento advocate (Hey, I’m not living there anymore either), but I am opposed to gratuitous Sacramento bashing. But…ummmm…Zenster…have you LIVED in Sacramento? If you did, did you spend your entire time under a rock? Do you know who Jerry Perry is? Brian McKenna? Kevin Seconds? Those three have devoted their entire lives to Sacramento local music. Ever go to the Cattle Club? Cafe Paris? Old Ironsides? The Capitol Garage? The Press Club? Harlows? 815 L Street? The Loft? The summer concert series on Ceasar Chavez Plaza? The other summer concert series at Miller park? the old Thrusday Night Market? The Heritage Festival (local music on nine stages for two day)? Have you ever read Alive&Kicking, Sacramento’s local music magazine? Admittedly it’s been a year since I’ve lived there, but when I left there was an increadable music scene, with some very talented and dedicated people. Not only was there a plethora of talent, it was also cohesive. People worked together (like the Sacpop people) to make local music for local people, not just whore around for a record contract. Here in Santa Cruz, all we get is hippies with their silly drums. Oh how I wish I could go to a Go National concert, or go see the Groovie Ghoulies! What, local music doesn’t impress you? Well there are a few Sacto bands that have been getting airplay lately (besides Tesla). Perhaps you’ve heard of Simon Says? Deathray? DJ Shadow? Will Haven? Oleander? Cake? The Deftones? Admittedly not the longest list, but still nothing to scoff at. Anyway, I am an ex-Sacramentan, not a current one, and as such am not qualified to defend Sacto. I admit it’s hot, sprawling, run by idiots, got terrible self and a little strange politically (it managed to be listed as one of the most liberal friendly and the lest liberal friendly cities on [http://www.turnleft.com](http://www.turnleft.com) ), but it serves the people there well and some people actually like it. Some people like it enough to stay there. Some people like it enough to devote large portions of their life to Sacramento. And some, like the mayor of Danville, like it because it is one of the last places in this state that you can afford to live. Sacramento, love it or leave it…but don’t sit around bashing from afar! ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/8 "2001-03-02T06:57:19Z")
its so hot in sacto that itll boil yer brains. i was in shingle springs this summer, not so far from sac, and it was _118_ degrees, according to the bank thermometer, in the middle of the day. that aint right. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2001, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/9 "2001-03-02T10:33:20Z")
> [@](#): > > San Francisco- If you would stop patting yourself on the back long enough to pull your head out of your ass, you might discover that you are not the center of the universe! Everybody knows that **Los Angeles** is the center of the universe.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/10 "2001-03-03T00:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\*Here in Santa Cruz, all we get is hippies with their silly drums. Oh how I wish I could go to a Go National concert, or go see the Groovie Ghoulies! > > What, local music doesn’t impress you? Well there are a few Sacto bands that have been getting airplay lately (besides Tesla). Perhaps you’ve heard of Simon Says? Deathray? DJ Shadow? Will Haven? Oleander? Cake? The Deftones? Admittedly not the longest list, but still nothing to scoff at. \*\* I’ll just say this about Santa Cruz (since you did bring it up ;)). It’s not as liberal minded as it claims to be…lesbians are pretty well welcomed, but two gay men walking down the street holding hands get called fags (my friend David and his boyfriend did try just that, and that scenario did occur). At least IMHO. (I live near Monterey, by the way, even) Anyway, I will say that sacramento does have some good bands, Cake and The Deftones are examples of that. The only reason i dont care to live in Sacramento is it’s too far from the ocean and too hot for me. But i wouldnt consider it such a cultural backwater like that chron article claims. ---
**Author:** ![Rasa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rasa/32/3578_2.png) [@Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rasa)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/11 "2001-03-03T01:32:58Z")
From [The USGS’s website on earthquakes:](http://earthquake.usgs.gov/faq/myths.html#7) > [@](#): > > Q: Will California eventually fall off into the ocean? > A: No. The San Andreas Fault System, which crosses California from the Salton Sea in the south to Cape Mendocino in the north, is the boundary between the Pacific Plate and North American Plate. The Pacific Plate is moving in northwest with respect to the North American Plate at approximately 46 millimeters per year (the rate your fingernails grow). The strike-slip earthquakes on the San Andreas Fault are a result of this plate motion. The plates are moving horizontally past one another, so California is not going to fall into the ocean. However, Los Angeles and San Francisco will one day be adjacent to one another! :eek: The horror! ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2001, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-fuck-off/56404/12 "2001-03-03T01:45:05Z")
**RTA** wrote > [@](#): > > I should think that Santa Cruz is one of the very first places that needs to take its self-righteous, hippier-than-thou attitude down a few notches. Amen!