# San Francisco has banned handguns **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254 "2005-11-09T18:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/21 "2005-11-09T21:41:51Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > Actually, SCOTUS has consistantly refused to rule on the Constitutional issue, to the point of actually tapdancing around to a slight-of-hand distraction; see _US vs Miller_ as a lonely example of the Supreme Court actually addressing the 2nd Amendment issue. > > [Here](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2005/01/19/state1722EST7739.DTL)’s and article from the _San Francisco Chronicle_ regarding the law. Although the article doesn’t mention it, one of the rare CCW permits issued by the City of San Francisco is for none other than Senator Dianne Feinstein, who apparently thinks irony is a metal. Given that firearms are still freely available outside the city limits it seems unlikely that this law will have any positive impact on reducing violent gun-related crime even if they were somehow able to force criminals to initially relinquish illegally owned and unregistered firearms. Another example of policy to be seen “doing something about this problem” without actually accomplishing anything. > > Stranger Feinstein once admitted publicly that she had a California concealed carry permit and indeed often carried a .38 in her purse. I think I’ve heard since that she allowed her permit to lapse. And from dark recess in my mind, I seem to recall that she had the .38 melted down - and made into a crucifix which she then gave to Pope Paul. Bizarre, if true. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/22 "2005-11-09T21:46:41Z")
Here it is. Seems my memory is working. And so is Google. [http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Books%20and%20News/Permission%20to%20Pack](http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Books%20and%20News/Permission%20to%20Pack) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/23 "2005-11-09T21:51:08Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Cite. I think this is incorrect. IIRC, the 14th has been applied to bind states to certain provisions of the Constitution, but never the 2nd Amendment. You are correct. The doctrine of binding the states through the 14th Amendment is called “incorporation” and the 2nd Amendment has not been incorporated. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/24 "2005-11-09T21:51:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Sometimes I think they really do live in a different universe from the rest of us. Indeed, it’s called the future. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/25 "2005-11-09T22:09:55Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Indeed, it’s called the future. If it is, I don’t like it there. Forward, into the Past! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/26 "2005-11-09T22:10:28Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > How does that work? Will San Francisco pay people the fair market value of their handguns? Or will they make people turn them in and say, ‘Sorry you spent hundreds or thousands of dollars. Gimme.’? Will there be a registration whereby current handgun owners may keep their handguns? Or must people move them out of the city, say to a friend’s house or a safety deposit box? Dunno about SF but DC has a similar law. No guns allowed at all. Every so often they have days when gun owners can turn in their guns and (IIRC) get a small monetary reward. From what I hear, the guns that are turned in are mainly POS that haven’t been fired in years, making the reward more than the gun is worth. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/27 "2005-11-09T22:11:46Z")
Rather, no handguns allowed at all. ---
**Author:** ![Poonther](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Poonther](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poonther)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/28 "2005-11-09T22:21:44Z")
I applaude SFers for approving this ban. Like **Icarus** said it’s the future they are living in and probably in twenty years several other large American cities will try and do this. As stated Washington D.C. has gun control and Chicago has some type of ban or tried something along these lines, I think. Of course this type of law will never take effect in Texas where you are permitted to pick your nose in church or public with your gun. Good job SF! ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/29 "2005-11-09T22:24:39Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > Indeed, it’s called the future. Oh boy! We all get ray guns in the future! Where do I sign up? ---
**Author:** ![SkeptiJess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SkeptiJess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkeptiJess)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/30 "2005-11-09T22:40:56Z")
I suppose that (since some other cities have done it), they might make a handgun ban stick in San Francisco. I don’t agree with it, and I wouldn’t have voted for it. But forcing people to give up their private property without compensation? _That_ would make me furious. I don’t own a handgun, but my parents own three. All are legally owned and properly registered. Two of them they bought themselves and paid several hundred dollars each for – they would have to just turn these over for nothing? The third is a .22 that my mother’s now-dead brother bought and gave to her as a gift 35 years ago. She would have to just give that up or be in violation of the law? Amazing. And super-amazing that anyone, no matter their views on gun ownership, whould think this reasonable. How was this handled in DC and Chicago? Were legally registered guns grandfathered? Were people compensated for the loss of their property at fair-market value? Were exceptions allowed for heirloom guns? Antique guns? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/31 "2005-11-09T22:52:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You gotta wonder about folks in the Granola State. Sometimes I think they really do live in a different universe from the rest of us. Jesus fucking Christ, how I wish that were true. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/32 "2005-11-09T23:05:12Z")
Note that you don’t _have_ to give the gun to the SF police. You could sell it ahead of time to someone, you can store it outside of SF, etc. The presumption that you can _only_ turn the gun into the police is silly. Note that there are a lot of illegal items that people are not allowed to possess in the US and that you are not entitled to receive compensation for. E.g., you get busted with a roach (aka “street value of a million dollars worth of marijuana”). Think you’d get far trying to get a million bucks for your confiscated property? And remember, formerly legal substances get put onto control lists quite frequently, no compensation there either. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/33 "2005-11-09T23:07:02Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Oh yeah. There is no provision in the legislation to compensate owners for any surrendered handgun. Legislated thievery. Appalling - particularly coming from a city which has long been a bastion of personal rights. Whats stopping the citizens from selling their handguns to someone in a place where they are legal? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/34 "2005-11-09T23:17:31Z")
Some questions: 1. Do those of you who object to this law also think the 2nd ammendment protects the private ownership of cannons, bazookas, and nuclear weapons? If not, aren’t those also “arms”? 2. When Cocaine, LSD, marijuana, and child porn were made illegal did the govt need to compensate people who already possesed them? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/35 "2005-11-09T23:21:39Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that there are a lot of illegal items that people are not allowed to possess in the US and that you are not entitled to receive compensation for. The difference being that this is a legally purchased piece of equipment. If gun control laws demonstrated some quantifiable effectiveness in permanently reducing violent crime there would at least be an empirical argument here. But historically, they don’t. The Constitutional issue aside, this is just a way for politicians to claim to be “doing something” while ignoring the root problems of crime. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/36 "2005-11-09T23:31:53Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Whats stopping the citizens from selling their handguns to someone in a place where they are legal? Like say, Oakland? Nothing, I’d imagine. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/37 "2005-11-09T23:36:04Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Some questions: > > 1. Do those of you who object to this law also think the 2nd ammendment protects the private ownership of cannons, bazookas, and nuclear weapons? If not, aren’t those also “arms”? I own a cannon. The Febs have no problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/38 "2005-11-10T00:11:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > You gotta wonder about folks in the Granola State. Sometimes I think they really do live in a different universe from the rest of us. That’s how the rest of us feel about Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/39 "2005-11-10T00:13:09Z")
“Proposition H?” What kind of a flaming asshole came up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254/40 "2005-11-10T01:09:19Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Oh boy! We all get ray guns in the future! Where do I sign up? Right here where it says, “I want a 2020’s Style Death Ray.” 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-francisco-has-banned-handguns/330254.md?page=3)