# San Jose CA gun tax law is a positive first step to rational gun ownership **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 1, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433 "2021-07-01T15:14:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/321 "2022-02-07T02:34:38Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I can buy a gun from my neighbor with cash. I can also manufacture a gun for personal use. No taxes are paid in either scenario. Well, technically depending on your state’s laws it can be that any sale of _any_ object whether privately or by a commercial retailer may be subject to sales or use tax – but then it’s just a general sales tax, not a tax-on-guns. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/322 "2022-02-13T05:03:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _However, insurance industry representatives have noted there are remedies within the system and that, in the vast majority of circumstances, no policy will be underwritten by actuaries to cover an illegal act_ > > [https://www.heritage.org/firearms/commentary/8-problems-san-joses-gun-insurance-mandate-and-gun-ownership-tax](https://www.heritage.org/firearms/commentary/8-problems-san-joses-gun-insurance-mandate-and-gun-ownership-tax) Agreed. And I will take your suggestion not to keep contributing to the redo of general gun control debates. But this point bears repeating. No insurance will cover intentional illegal acts. That is hundreds of years of law and it is for a purpose. Who should be able to buy civil immunity from a cold and calculated act of violence? It’s against public policy. If you (the general you) shoots someone, then the money to treat their injuries should come out of your (the general your) pocket, not from some insurance company’s pocket. People cannot insulate their bank accounts from things like that. And the San Jose law, if applied as intended and advocated in this thread would do one worse. Not only is the criminal insulated from a judgment for intentionally shooting someone, he gets the benefit of an insurance policy that _someone else_ paid the premiums for! And that “someone else” was the victim of the theft that the criminal perpetrated. Does any of this make sense? Of course not. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2022, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/323 "2022-02-13T05:21:52Z")
Now, as I say that, I looked it up, and my state has done it somewhat for cars. The State requires that every car owner have a minimum of $25k liability insurance on their car. That amount hasn’t changed since the 1970s and is woefully inadequate in most situations. I have more than the minimum; I am covered up to $300k for liability and have also purchased it for damage to my own car in case I have an at fault accident my car will be repaired after the $500 deductible. And I must buy uninsured motorist coverage! I have to pay if someone else violates the law by not having the mandatory insurance. There is an exclusion for intentional criminal acts. But, a state statute requires that my car insurance cover the state minimum $25k even if I deliberately run over a line of school children. So, contrary to my chest beating earlier, there is some precedent for this. They kind of hide it: > (1) The liability of the insurance carrier with respect to the insurance required by this chapter shall become absolute whenever injury or damage covered by said motor vehicle liability policy occurs; the policy may not be canceled or annulled as to such liability by an agreement between the insurance carrier and the insured after the occurrence of the injury or damage; no statement made by the insured or on his or her behalf and no violation of the policy defeats or voids the policy. W.Va. Code 17D-4-12 (f) (1) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/324 "2022-02-15T11:37:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Right, and that means that most useful solutions to gun violence have been taken off the table. Sure and because a cop writes the wrong thing in a warrant, a murderer goes free. Welcome to the cost of living in a society that respects individual rights. > [@Babale](#): > > False. Here are just a few of the ways it did increase the danger to me: > > 1. you now own a gun and at any moment could snap and decide to use it to murder me. You can assure me you won’t all day long; I don’t trust you with that power. So I am judged on what I might, but really would never do? You have no evidence to show I would do such a thing, and I deny that I would do it, but it is still a danger, even though it will indeed never happen? I own a car. I could get drunk and accidentally kill you. You aren’t out advocating for making cars nor alcohol illegal because of this. > [@Babale](#): > > you may tire of the gun and pawn it, or it may be stolen or lost. In any of those cases, a criminal could get a hold of the gun and use it against me. Maybe or might. I own guns that are over 100 years old. And how is it my fault if a third party does a bad thing? > [@Babale](#): > > you are subsidizing the gun industry with your purchase ensuring more guns are produced and end up in the hands of criminals. That is a constitutional right just like the “abortion industry” (until later this summer). When the guns “end up” in the hands of a criminal, then enforce that law which we already have. Don’t pass another one that harms me. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/325 "2022-02-15T12:41:44Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So I am judged on what I might, but really would never do? No, the potential danger of the weapon is weighed against need of possession. The utility of automobiles is great when weighed against their miss use as weapons. The utility of weapons is miniscule when weighed against their miss use. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/326 "2022-02-15T19:29:44Z")
Not according to our Constitution. The balancing test has been had. You might disagree with Heller, as I do Roe and Casey, but our Supreme Court decides what the law is, and we live in a country where your statement is not factually correct. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/327 "2022-02-15T19:33:24Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Sure and because a cop writes the wrong thing in a warrant, a murderer goes free. Welcome to the cost of living in a society that respects individual rights. And this is the attitude that makes you complicit in American gun violence; the perverse insistence that owning a gun is a right on the same level as freedom of speech or freedom of religion, making it impossible to do anything that might actually result in fewer gun deaths. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/328 "2022-02-15T19:35:25Z")
I didn’t make that decision, the founding fathers did. And I get the argument, as I have made in other threads, that Scalia’s opinion in Heller was one of his weakest. It is so utterly without any neutral principle that it has caused confusion for 14 years. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/329 "2022-02-15T19:39:21Z")
But I do think that it is beyond debate that gun ownership is part of the traditions and history of this country such that it is a substantive due process right or a privilege and immunity of citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/330 "2022-02-15T19:39:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I didn’t make that decision, the founding fathers did. The founding fathers made the decision to write the 2nd amendment, the same as they made the decision to write the 3/5ths compromise. _You’re_ the one defending their clearly disastrous decision more than two hundred years later. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/331 "2022-02-15T19:41:36Z")
We’ve done this in other threads. The north wanted to count slaves as ZERO. In any event, gun ownership has and continues to be a normal part of life for most of America, and we do so without shooting other people. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/332 "2022-02-15T19:44:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > We’ve done this in other threads. The north wanted to count slaves as ZERO. I can’t imagine why you think this is relevant to point out. > [@UltraVires](#): > > In any event, gun ownership has and continues to be a normal part of life for most of America, and we do so without shooting other people. And that’s why school shootings will never stop. But hey, what’s a couple busloads of dead children, when placed against tradition? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/333 "2022-02-15T19:49:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I can’t imagine why you think this is relevant to point out. You brought it up. And people always say it. But it was the slaveholders who wanted blacks, held as slaves, counted as full people. The argument is that blacks were only counted as 3/5 of a person as if they should be counted as full people. Sure, your (general your) argument is in line with southern slave owners. > [@Miller](#): > > And that’s why school shootings will never stop. My guns haven’t shot any school children nor any humans at all. Why are these inanimate objects blamed for someone’s mental health problem? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/334 "2022-02-15T19:56:00Z")
I’m not blaming the inanimate objects. I’m blaming you. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/335 "2022-02-15T20:04:22Z")
So what did I do? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/336 "2022-02-15T20:07:59Z")
You help keep the entire country hip deep in guns, making it effectively impossible to keep them out of the hands of dangerous people. You prevent us from passing laws that could actually do something about gun violence. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/337 "2022-02-15T20:10:05Z")
I don’t like to personalize these arguments, but I do that simply by owning guns? You have the same ability as I do to purchase a gun. Why aren’t you equally “responsible”? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/338 "2022-02-15T20:17:30Z")
@Babale says upthread that she doesn’t trust that I won’t murder her or her family based on my word. Why then would she trust you or anyone else that you wouldn’t go purchase a gun and murder her? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/339 "2022-02-15T20:20:18Z")
Closed on February 15, 2022, 8:20pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433/340 "2022-02-15T20:20:53Z")
**Modnote** : Please leave off the personalization of the Debate here. I will reopen this in 30 minutes as a cooling off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/san-jose-ca-gun-tax-law-is-a-positive-first-step-to-rational-gun-ownership/945433.md?page=18)